Do you feel bad about buying new(ish) releases used?

[o.pwuaioc]

It would be a fallacy to think that every used copy would be a new one, but there would be a significant number of them that would be new.

Please show me where I said there was a 1-to-1 correspondence?

You are making a lot of logic jumps and assumptions.

Actually, you're assuming things that I've never said. Please try not to. I know it's hard.

I would say some of those used sales go back into helping fund new sales, but not as much as they lose from the used.

This has to be proven.

There is a reason why gamestop is making so much money.

Because they sell both new and used games?

It also helps the developer X none when their game is sold used and the money spent is used to buy a new game from developer Y.

It balances out. There's nothing stopping your examples from selling a used game from developer Y to buy a new games from developer X as well.

Cutting out the used market just turns games into a transfer medium from the store to the gaming device and the physical media is worthless. I just don't see how people are convincing themselves they are supporting developers by purchasing used games...

This is the standard economic model for books, music, automobiles, furniture, appliances, and other electronics. There is no good reason at all to assume it doesn't automatically apply to video games.

[MrPopo]

There is a reason why gamestop is making so much money.

Because they sell both new and used games?

The reason is used sales.

[Jungell]

It would be a fallacy to think that every used copy would be a new one, but there would be a significant number of them that would be new. The same fallacy to think every used purchase supports a new purchase. There is some middle ground. You are making a lot of logic jumps and assumptions. I would say some of those used sales go back into helping fund new sales, but not as much as they lose from the used. There is a reason why gamestop is making so much money. It also helps the developer X none when their game is sold used and the money spent is used to buy a new game from developer Y.

I still like the used game market as a collector for retro systems and it gives my games value. Cutting out the used market just turns games into a transfer medium from the store to the gaming device and the physical media is worthless. I just don't see how people are convincing themselves they are supporting developers by purchasing used games...

You have a good point. But I think (based on what I have read here so far) the main thing that get's forgotten in both this and the piracy discussion is this;
We are not here to please the developers or the stores. It's the other way around.

It's not about "supporting a developer". It's all about playing the games. If a games is cheaper used, there's just no reason to buy it new. Period. They could easily increase sales by thousands if they dropped the release price. They just keep it high to milk the fanboys and the top-of-the-fucking-line-online-gamers. The price drops to a point that is reasonable for both parties after some time. We all know this.

I'm never going to spend an extra 10 - 30$ just to support a developer. A new game in Sweden during the first period of it's release sells for about 80 - 100$. There is just no way I can agree to that. I tell them that by not buying it for that insane price.

[o.pwuaioc]

There is a reason why gamestop is making so much money.

Because they sell both new and used games?

The reason is used sales.

How did you pass math? From 2011 to 2012 used game and used hardware sales were only a third of their profits.

[MrPopo]

It would be a fallacy to think that every used copy would be a new one, but there would be a significant number of them that would be new. The same fallacy to think every used purchase supports a new purchase. There is some middle ground. You are making a lot of logic jumps and assumptions. I would say some of those used sales go back into helping fund new sales, but not as much as they lose from the used. There is a reason why gamestop is making so much money. It also helps the developer X none when their game is sold used and the money spent is used to buy a new game from developer Y.

I still like the used game market as a collector for retro systems and it gives my games value. Cutting out the used market just turns games into a transfer medium from the store to the gaming device and the physical media is worthless. I just don't see how people are convincing themselves they are supporting developers by purchasing used games...

You have a good point. But I think (based on what I have read here so far) the main thing that get's forgotten in both this and the piracy discussion is this;
We are not here to please the developers or the stores. It's the other way around.

It's not about "supporting a developer". It's all about playing the games. If a games is cheaper used, there's just no reason to buy it new. Period. They could easily increase sales by thousands if they dropped the release price. They just keep it high to milk the fanboys and the top-of-the-fucking-line-online-gamers. The price drops to a point that is reasonable for both parties after some time. We all know this.

I'm never going to spend an extra 10 - 30$ just to support a developer. A new game in Sweden during the first period of it's release sells for about 80 - 100$. There is just no way I can agree to that. I tell them that by not buying it for that insane price.

That is an argument for not buying at the current retail price and waiting for the price drop and picking it up then. If developers see that their games do not sell in that initial window where it is full price but then picks up a lot of steam after the average retail price has gone down then they see that they are charging too much and should update their initial retail price accordingly.

By contrast, when you buy it used they don't know you bought it. So from their perspective you don't like their game at all. New sales are the metric that allows companies to see if their game was popular or not and if people liked it or not. That's what I mean by supporting the developers.

[MrPopo]

Because they sell both new and used games?

The reason is used sales.

How did you pass math? From 2011 to 2012 used game and used hardware sales were only a third of their profits.

Pretty sure that out of a total profit $2700 that $1200 is 45%, and that it is 26% more than the new sales of $950.

[Jmustang1968]

You are making a lot of logic jumps and assumptions.

Actually, you're assuming things that I've never said. Please try not to. I know it's hard.

I would say some of those used sales go back into helping fund new sales, but not as much as they lose from the used.

This has to be proven.

Because they sell both new and used games?

This is the standard economic model for books, music, automobiles, furniture, appliances, and other electronics. There is no good reason at all to assume it doesn't automatically apply to video games.

If you want a civil discourse, please cut out your smarmy passive-aggressive retorts. That is just being an ass (I know its hard to to ) I am looking at exactly what you said. You dismiss my respones to you without applying that same reasoning to your arguments. You can't have it both ways... I know they lose more from used sales than they gain because gamestop is making such a profit off of it.

Compared to used games, gamestop doesn't make shit on new games. Their profit comes from used games sales,
that's why they push them so hard.

[Jungell]

That is an argument for not buying at the current retail price and waiting for the price drop and picking it up then. If developers see that their games do not sell in that initial window where it is full price but then picks up a lot of steam after the average retail price has gone down then they see that they are charging too much and should update their initial retail price accordingly.

By contrast, when you buy it used they don't know you bought it. So from their perspective you don't like their game at all. New sales are the metric that allows companies to see if their game was popular or not and if people liked it or not. That's what I mean by supporting the developers.

Of course they see it. When I download the updates, play in their servers or download DLC. But yet again; weather they see me playing it or not, or if the lost a couple of bucks; not my problem. Of course they don't like the used market, but they know it exists and they know the reason why. Games are too expensive.

Just look at the figures someone just posted. The developers know about this. If it would hurt them, they would have dropped the price. But maybe having all the ultra-current players buying the new games over priced would produce the same amount of money as dropping the prices but increasing sales would.

Either way, I don't feel bad.

[Jmustang1968]

You have a good point. But I think (based on what I have read here so far) the main thing that get's forgotten in both this and the piracy discussion is this;
We are not here to please the developers or the stores. It's the other way around.

It's not about "supporting a developer". It's all about playing the games. If a games is cheaper used, there's just no reason to buy it new. Period. They could easily increase sales by thousands if they dropped the release price. They just keep it high to milk the fanboys and the top-of-the-fucking-line-online-gamers. The price drops to a point that is reasonable for both parties after some time. We all know this.

I'm never going to spend an extra 10 - 30$ just to support a developer. A new game in Sweden during the first period of it's release sells for about 80 - 100$. There is just no way I can agree to that. I tell them that by not buying it for that insane price.

I buy new if I can to support the developer of a game I like. If they see good sales, they are more likely to both stay in business and make more of the same type of games I like. What happens when this company makes this jrpg I like and it doesn't sell? There is a good chance they won't be making or bringing over another jrpg. I see preordering or buying new games I am anticipating as a way of 'voting' on games I like so companies will make more of those games. Plus I feel like I am supporting the guys who put forth the effort into making the game, and the money not all going to gamestop or some other reseller. I will buy used if my only option, but my preference is new when available

[Jmustang1968]

Of course they see it. When I download the updates, play in their servers or download DLC. But yet again; weather they see me playing it or not, or if the lost a couple of bucks; not my problem. Of course they don't like the used market, but they know it exists and they know the reason why. Games are too expensive.

Just look at the figures someone just posted. The developers know about this. If it would hurt them, they would have dropped the price. But maybe having all the ultra-current players buying the new games over priced would produce the same amount of money as dropping the prices but increasing sales would.

Either way, I don't feel bad.

Games are expensive to make, and one of the few things that hasn't gone up much at all with inflation and rising production costs. Compared to other things the entertainment hours per $ ratio is pretty good with games.