Flake wrote:Writing an article and hoping that a PR guy who offended you will stumble upon it is absolutely the worst method to instigate change that I have ever heard of.
I doubt she expects any specific PR guys to read it. I would expect that she hopes the essay's exposure on a well trafficked site that PR people read as part of their job will lead to a few of them rethinking things. Telling off one guy at a con is one thing, but enlightening a potentially larger audience through writing is more substantial, I feel.
Again, I refer you to my earlier criticism of this type of stance. Women, as an emerging demographic in gaming, have every right and reason to demand to be treated equally but they sure as hell should not EXPECT it. Not yet, at least. Behavior does not change just because someone wants it to - change has to be caused.
So when, exactly, should they "expect" to be treated equal?
dsheinem wrote:I doubt she expects any specific PR guys to read it. I would expect that she hopes the essay's exposure on a well trafficked site that PR people read as part of their job will lead to a few of them rethinking things. Telling off one guy at a con is one thin, but enlightening a potentially larger audience through writing is more substantial, I feel.
Reading about a second hand account is not going to affect any one in a meaningful way. First hand experience is the only way to generate true empathy. In any case, I was not suggesting that she 'tell off' anyone. It is possible to assert yourself without offending.
So when, exactly, should they "expect" to be treated equal?
This is going to sound cold but women in gaming should not expect to be treated equally until their collective financial support of the industry is exactly 50% of what their male counterparts represent. Obviously that's the worst case scenario. Women should assert themselves and get male gamers and game developers to realize that the days of gaming being a 'boys only' club came to an end a long time ago.
Maybe now Nintendo will acknowledge Metroid has a fanbase?
Flake wrote:This is going to sound cold but women in gaming should not expect to be treated equally until their collective financial support of the industry is exactly 50% of what their male counterparts represent.
Flake wrote:Reading about a second hand account is not going to affect any one in a meaningful way. First hand experience is the only way to generate true empathy.
How is her story not a firsthand accounting of what happened? Are you suggesting that people can only learn to change their beliefs through their own personal experience and not through reading about the experiences of others?
This is going to sound cold but women in gaming should not expect to be treated equally until their collective financial support of the industry is exactly 50% of what their male counterparts represent. Obviously that's the worst case scenario. Women should assert themselves and get male gamers and game developers to realize that the days of gaming being a 'boys only' club came to an end a long time ago.
Yup, that sounds cold. I don't see equal numbers being a threshold for the expectation of equal treatment in any kind of sociocultural context, so I can't follow you there.
According to this, it was at 46 percent in 2011. I'd say that's more than close enough to demand some equal treatment.
I put the appropriate emphasis on there for you. Also, the report you cited only validates the PR people urging the author to play social games as that is what most women appear to be playing if that report is to be believed.
dsheinem wrote:How is her story not a firsthand accounting of what happened? Are you suggesting that people can only learn to change their beliefs through their own personal experience and not through reading about the experiences of others?
I typed that poorly, I meant that the experience readers would gather would be second hand to them.
Yup, that sounds cold. I don't see equal numbers being a threshold for the expectation of equal treatment in any kind of sociocultural context, so I can't follow you there.
Businesses do not care about how people feel except for how that translates into dollars. People do not care to change unless they are shown that the change would be a good thing.
You cannot just expect the world to 'poof' and become the way you want it to be. If something is worth having, it is worth making an effort to obtain. She wants to be treated equally and her only recourse is to try to garner pity? Do you not see the contradiction there?
Maybe now Nintendo will acknowledge Metroid has a fanbase?
AppleQueso wrote:Should they really have to ask for equal treatment? I don't think so.
You look at the world and wonder why it is not the way you think it should be. I look at the world and wonder how I can make it the way I want it to be. This is a 'wish in one hand, shit in the other' scenario.
Do you think any social movement has ever gotten what they wanted just because they wanted it?
Maybe now Nintendo will acknowledge Metroid has a fanbase?
Flake wrote: You cannot just expect the world to 'poof' and become the way you want it to be. If something is worth having, it is worth making an effort to obtain. She wants to be treated equally and her only recourse is to try to garner pity? Do you not see the contradiction there?
If you think I expect the world to "poof" into anything then you misjudge me. I think that change is a process, and that part of that change involves consciousness raising about issues that will lead to people changing their behavior. I don't see the article as trying to garner pity (she isn't asking or expecting any), I see it as trying to highlight a problem in the hopes that it might lead to consciousness raising and, eventually (as part of a larger process/larger set of voices/experiences/etc.), some kind of meaningful change.
dsheinem wrote: I don't see the article as trying to garner pity (she isn't asking or expecting any), I see it as trying to highlight a problem in the hopes that it might lead to consciousness raising and, eventually (as part of a larger process/larger set of voices/experiences/etc.), some kind of meaningful change.
Fair enough, though I disagree about her looking for pity. I think she is. Beyond that though, we can agree about what her overall goal is with that article.
Still, she had a chance to affect actual change on the people she is complaining about and she apparently did not care enough to speak up. Instead, by her own admission, she demurred and did what they asked. I guess it is not THAT important to her yet. Maybe next year.
Maybe now Nintendo will acknowledge Metroid has a fanbase?
AppleQueso wrote:Should they really have to ask for equal treatment? I don't think so.
Women shouldn't have HAD to ask for the vote. People get used to "the way things are" and don't just change the way they act. They need an external force; an article, a debate, etc to change their mind.
Blizzard Entertainment Software Developer - All comments and views are my own and not representative of the company.
I don't see equal numbers being a threshold for the expectation of equal treatment in any kind of sociocultural context, so I can't follow you there.