Your single most *IMPORTANT* game of this generation?

[Mr. Scarecrow]

When I really think about, this generation's probably been my least favorite. I can think of quite a few that I enjoyed and even really liked, but nothing even came close to making me feel how I did when I used to devote myself to Ocarina of Time back in the day.

[SegaVega]

But Soul Calibur still had some rough edges. The biggest one being the soundtrack. Compared to Soul Blade's, it was lower quality and had a "clangy" sound throughout the whole thing that drove me nuts.

I know nothing of this "clangy" thing. The music in Soul Calibur was soaring, especially the theme and select screens. But music is a poor element to use to put a game down.

The weapon selection loss was a great one for sure, as was the guard break meter. Soul Calibur was granted a more solid and refined structure thanks to that, and finding an opponent of similar skill, until they vanish , proved a much more thrilling time than comparing meager weapon choices.

The ending scrolls were no hindrance. They were well drawn, poetic and often powerful with the accompanying soundtrack. CG or real time endings would've cost too much time and extra/unused world design, and would have simply been too much. Like Shadow of the Colossus, subtlety is key for a great great game unreliant on story. But who played single player that much anyway?

Mr. Scarecrow, I agree.

[Mozgus]

I know nothing of this "clangy" thing. The music in Soul Calibur was soaring, especially the theme and select screens.

Listen to SC1. Then listen to SC2. Need me to send you the music? It's just not debatable.

But music is a poor element to use to put a game down.

....WHAT?! Music is the universal language! It's incredibly important! My god, I can't process that...

The ending scrolls were no hindrance. They were well drawn, poetic and often powerful with the accompanying soundtrack. CG or real time endings would've cost too much time and extra/unused world design, and would have simply been too much.

Well, they bored me to tears, and sacrificed lots of character. I was able to follow the story in Soul Blade for each fighter, but in Calibur, I just didn't care to study into it outside of the game. And in a total package title, there is no such thing as "too much".

The weapon selection loss was a great one for sure, as was the guard break meter. Soul Calibur was granted a more solid and refined structure thanks to that, and finding an opponent of similar skill, until they vanish Wink, proved a much more thrilling time than comparing meager weapon choices.

The weapon system was what pleased us casual fighter types though. I found the weapon system to be so cool that it motivated me to study into ancient weapons which were featured in the game, and I was surprised at how many of them were realistically captured in the game. There were the obvious fictional powered weapons, but most were authentic and I loved that.

You're saying it's better that they please the hardcore fighters only, rather then both types of fans? Crazy, man....

There's only one fighting game out there that has perfectly captured both entities of the fans of this genre, and it was Smash Bros Melee.

[SegaVega]

I know nothing of this "clangy" thing. The music in Soul Calibur was soaring, especially the theme and select screens.

Listen to SC1. Then listen to SC2. Need me to send you the music? It's just not debatable.

I did not say the soundtrack to Soul Calibur was superior to it's sequel. Where did you see me say that? I'm not debating it, but it just cannot be said that Soul Calibur had poor audio.

But music is a poor element to use to put a game down.

....WHAT?! Music is the universal language! It's incredibly important! My god, I can't process that...

You make it very clear that you have a bias towards music. Yes, music is in several ways important, but poor sound does not make for a serious defect. It's not "incredibly important!"; some of the greatest and most engrossing games have had an arguably mediocre soundtrack, especially the gameplay driven arcade-esque titles. Soul Calibur not being one of them. Music can draw you in, speak to you, convey the game, set a mood, but it doesn't dictate the excellence of great gameplay. Inhance it's impact maybe, but a lack thereof will not lessen it. Soul Calibur's gameplay was so well executed, it could have done without it, but I and most others would say it didn't. And regardless of casualness, in a precision fighter, flawless music is not integral.

I was able to follow the story in Soul Blade for each fighter, but in Calibur, I just didn't care to study into it outside of the game. And in a total package title, there is no such thing as "too much".

The game wasn't meant to be studied feverishly, it's a fighting game. One with a good story arc anyway. If you want a heavy story line, I'm sure you know there are plenty of titles that will give it to you. Soul Calibur was planned and executed the way it should have been, and though I welcomed the altered ending style, those who didn't couldn't claim that as an unforgivable move given the overall result of the game.

The weapon system was what pleased us casual fighter types though. I found the weapon system to be so cool that it motivated me to study into ancient weapons which were featured in the game, and I was surprised at how many of them were realistically captured in the game. There were the obvious fictional powered weapons, but most were authentic and I loved that.

You're saying it's better that they please the hardcore fighters only, rather then both types of fans? Crazy, man....

You said yourself that most thought Soul Calibur was the first in the series. Most "casual gamers" didn't pick up on Edge/Blade, they were weaned on Soul Calibur. Soul Calibur likewise created a dynasty. There were just as many hardcore fans of the original (I not being one of them) as there were casual, probably more, and after Soul Calibur, there were even more.
Namco pleased the vast majority of fans, without a doubt. You certainly fall into the lowest of the low demographic here, not to insinuate that I don't understand your plight. I also think you were the only one motivated to study ancient weapons. That's an odd thing to use as support, few would've been interested doing in that, and to say "that's how great it was, I studied weapons because of it" would only stretch so far as yourself or not much further.

The world agrees that Soul Calibur is better than Soul Edge. I'm usually not with the world, but it's...Soul Calibur. And a proper choice for this generation's most finest.

There's only one fighting game out there that has perfectly captured both entities of the fans of this genre, and it was Smash Bros Melee.

The hardcore fighting conisseur often won't find that to be true. SSBM was a console release (we need arcades), designed best for controllers (analog sticks only, no less) and is ultra simple (A+B+Grab). It fit me great regardless, being an ultra absurd Nintendo fan. SSBM appeased hardcore Nintendo fans, as well as the casual gamers, which were it's only targets anyhow. Only in that did it capture "both entities".

Virtua Fighter and Soul Calibur are just two of the titles to capture both hardcore and casual fighting fans. "Easy to play, difficult to master". They're fun and simple (3 buttons in VF/full movement in SC), but have immense depth for the rest.

[racketboy]

My vote goes for Viewtiful Joe.
It took a forgotten genre and 2D perspective and showed the gaming world it shouldn't be forgotten.
Capcom had its rare case of creativity, but then, unfortunately, milked it quickly to make more money.

I hope Viewtiful Joe continues, but it needs some new breath breathed into it like Resident Evil did.


Runners up would be the best of the Nintendo DS titles. They used the DS's unique features to change how we play games.

Innovation and unique thinking is the key.

[Mozgus]

I did not say the soundtrack to Soul Calibur was superior to it's sequel. Where did you see me say that? I'm not debating it, but it just cannot be said that Soul Calibur had poor audio.

Neither did I. And yes it can be said. Soul Calibur's soundtrack simply used lower quality instrument samples. I'm still offering MP3s to prove it.

I also think you were the only one motivated to study ancient weapons. That's an odd thing to use as support, few would've been interested doing in that, and to say "that's how great it was, I studied weapons because of it" would only stretch so far as yourself or not much further.

So now you make fun of me. Smooth.

The hardcore fighting conisseur often won't find that to be true. SSBM was a console release (we need arcades), designed best for controllers (analog sticks only, no less) and is ultra simple (A+B+Grab). It fit me great regardless, being an ultra absurd Nintendo fan. SSBM appeased hardcore Nintendo fans, as well as the casual gamers, which were it's only targets anyhow. Only in that did it capture "both entities".

Virtua Fighter and Soul Calibur are just two of the titles to capture both hardcore and casual fighting fans. "Easy to play, difficult to master". They're fun and simple (3 buttons in VF/full movement in SC), but have immense depth for the rest.

You're going to pretend that Melee does not have a dedicated tournament fanbase just like any Soul Calibur, or Street Fighter? "Easy to play, difficult to master" fits Melee. It does not fit Virtual Fighter. You look like a complete idiot in VF until you practice for months.

You make it very clear that you have a bias towards music. Yes, music is in several ways important, but poor sound does not make for a serious defect. It's not "incredibly important!"; some of the greatest and most engrossing games have had an arguably mediocre soundtrack, especially the gameplay driven arcade-esque titles. Soul Calibur not being one of them. Music can draw you in, speak to you, convey the game, set a mood, but it doesn't dictate the excellence of great gameplay. Inhance it's impact maybe, but a lack thereof will not lessen it. Soul Calibur's gameplay was so well executed, it could have done without it, but I and most others would say it didn't. And regardless of casualness, in a precision fighter, flawless music is not integral.

All I did was point out a flaw. A flaw you admitted, along with about...counting...5 other flaws in SC you've admitted so far. Quite interesting that a game with all these problems can be considered the best of the generation. But ok, lol.

I said the game was great. I never once said Blade was better. Not once. I said that Blade muffled the impact of Calibur for me. Calibur wasn't so special to me as it was to other people when it launched because it didn't feel like such a new experience. Calibur is a much better game, but it's just sad that they had to rush it for launch, and skimp on many of the features that were expected.

But dude, this is no fun if you don't want to debate. Debating involves comparing points and such, but every aspect that you responded on so far includes one of the following 2 argument profiles:

1) "The gameplay is so perfect that any other flaw in the game has absolutely no impact on the overall perfection."
2) "Almost every single fan of Soul Calibur is standing behind me right now, and they all agree with me on this point."

It's getting annoying. You think it's the best. Fair enough.

My vote goes for Viewtiful Joe.
It took a forgotten genre and 2D perspective and showed the gaming world it shouldn't be forgotten.
Capcom had its rare case of creativity, but then, unfortunately, milked it quickly to make more money.

I hope Viewtiful Joe continues, but it needs some new breath breathed into it like Resident Evil did.

Yeah. Did you play Joe 2? Complete trash. Music, stage design, boss strategy, story, all garbage. And they had no unlockable characters. Just silvia. And she sucked hard in this one. Capcom tends to do this with every new series. Things get exponentially worse with each installment.

Although the changes they made to RE4 really brought the fun-factor down for me, and I consider it the worst in the core series, though still a decent game.

[racketboy]

Yeah unfortunately, I only own VJ2. I have the demo of the first one and found #2 on Clearance at Target.
Now I'm only the lookout for the first one...

[lordofduct]

So many games on the Dreamcast answer this question for me. But one that pertains directly to me and me alone (well others may have the feeling... but my reasoning is only personal) is that of Phantasy Star Online.

I used to despise Online RPGs for so many reasons. I found them dull and boring and just down right stupid. But when this game came out I ignored the Online aspect and bought it soully because it said Phantasy Star (grew up on the series ya see). Anyways through my adoration for Phantasy Star I actually grew to understand and in some instances enjoy Online MMORPGs.

I plan on buying Phantasy Star Universe this October!
WHO ELSE!? (I want to be able to play with people I actually 'sorta' know. None of my friends will play, I know that much. They all stuck on WoW).

[racketboy]

I've promised myself never to do a MMORPG...

[SegaVega]

I did not say the soundtrack to Soul Calibur was superior to it's sequel. Where did you see me say that? I'm not debating it, but it just cannot be said that Soul Calibur had poor audio.

Neither did I. And yes it can be said. Soul Calibur's soundtrack simply used lower quality instrument samples. I'm still offering MP3s to prove it.

I've no idea how lower quality instrument samples can hurt it's overall stature. You must not enjoy the music from older games. The Genesis had metallic sound, that didn't stop Koshiro or Tallarico. The N64 had tin-can-midi music, didn't hinder Ocarina or SM64 from possessing two of the greatest soundtracks in gaming history. It doesn't matter what you expect aurally from a console, it only matters what is heard, and nothing in Soul Calibur was so offensive it needed mention. The sound was great. I find it unlikely that you believe what you're saying, you seem to have been looking for a challenge against my praise, you've only done the same with everyone else's titles. Soul Calibur was hailed musically that year; it's music was fitting to it's design, and the rest of it's audio, which is much more important than a low-toned BGM, was near perfect. Effects, exotic voice-overs, hell the announcer was maybe the best in gaming history! "...but the soul still burns." I'm a little offended that you think I need MP3s after playing these titles as much as I have. I'm no music mogul, but I appreciate great sound in games, and Soul Calibur had it. Would you like me to point out a few tracks?

I also think you were the only one motivated to study ancient weapons. That's an odd thing to use as support, few would've been interested doing in that, and to say "that's how great it was, I studied weapons because of it" would only stretch so far as yourself or not much further.

So now you make fun of me. Smooth.

Yes, you're inferior somehow. I made fun of nothing, you're just changing the subject.

You're going to pretend that Melee does not have a dedicated tournament fanbase just like any Soul Calibur, or Street Fighter? "Easy to play, difficult to master" fits Melee. It does not fit Virtual Fighter. You look like a complete idiot in VF until you practice for months.

Melee's dedicated tournaments were spawned by the hardcore Nintendo fans and the casual gamers that were captured by it. Melee created it's own hardcore players. You said it satisfied both realms of fighting fans, which isn't correct. Street Fighter players for instance, the main group hardcore fighting fans - wouldn't touch a game like Melee. It simply doesn't satisfy you're criteria, or at least not until you change it

VF is a pick up and play game. You won't be great, but you'll get the idea much faster than you would most fighters. There are fewer techniques to understand; there is no full parry, red parry, roman cancel, gaurd impact, or any of that. Just 3 buttons, you counter, block or dodge, maybe throw, and the rest of the game falls in place. It's not as simple as Melee, but it reaches both fighting realms.

All I did was point out a flaw. A flaw you admitted, along with about...counting...5 other flaws in SC you've admitted so far. Quite interesting that a game with all these problems can be considered the best of the generation. But ok, lol.

I've not admitted any flaw, I've only discussed and defended the insignificant little gripes you've had. Anything I've said wasn't perfect needn't be. You're on the edge of a no pun intended, unsound argument. You laugh at my choice but later say it's great, why even bother to chime in with all these little things you don't find so special? You just want to be hard, but you're being rather inconsiderate. Soul Calibur stands the test of time, it had no inarguable flaws, perhaps none whatsoever, and nothing in or outside it's play mechanics that didn't promote fun play.

Calibur is a much better game, but it's just sad that they had to rush it for launch, and skimp on many of the features that were expected.

It was far from rushed. They gameplay and divergances that needed to be in there were, and enough of it that it's still played today as passionately it was when it was released. I'm sorry you didn't get a "ball mode".

But dude, this is no fun if you don't want to debate. Debating involves comparing points and such, but every aspect that you responded on so far includes one of the following 2 argument profiles:

1) "The gameplay is so perfect that any other flaw in the game has absolutely no impact on the overall perfection."
2) "Almost every single fan of Soul Calibur is standing behind me right now, and they all agree with me on this point."

Dude, don't blame me because you're mostly alone on this.

1) Every "flaw" was your gripe, quite petty ones with no impact on how the game turned out, most denotably because they didn't exist.
2) Outside of GTA, the world's most highly regarded games deserve their support. I've only pledged that the game is loved, and I've never used that as an excuse to escape from answering one of your complaints.

Capcom tends to do this with every new series. Things get exponentially worse with each installment.

I see it holds true outside of SC, you simply want games you've not played before. You should give follow-ups a better chance.

It's getting annoying. You think it's the best. Fair enough.

I'm supposed to be satisfied with that after your long response. Less gripes please, and it won't go any further.