What you love/hate about various genres

[ElkinFencer10]

...Metroidvanias, I really enjoy the exploration and the way progress is made. By the end of the game you're generally feeling like there's nothing you can't do. Well short of the level appropriate threats and by then it's a matter of putting all of your tools together to push through. Looking at Shmups, I really like the driving action, the games are intense and once you're proficient it's like a beautiful dance and imo just awesome to see and experience...the problem is the amount of time it takes to get that good at the game. Unfortunately, this often serves as a barrier to entry for many, myself included as I can only think of a handful that I've finished but I still love the genre and keep coming back for more punishment

I came to talk about Metroidvanias, as well. I hate forced backtracking. In all games. And what's weird is that despite the fact that that's a core part of the genre and why I don't really care for the genre, I love Metroid and Castlevania (I think that's more characters and atmosphere though).

[o.pwuaioc]

...Metroidvanias, I really enjoy the exploration and the way progress is made. By the end of the game you're generally feeling like there's nothing you can't do. Well short of the level appropriate threats and by then it's a matter of putting all of your tools together to push through. Looking at Shmups, I really like the driving action, the games are intense and once you're proficient it's like a beautiful dance and imo just awesome to see and experience...the problem is the amount of time it takes to get that good at the game. Unfortunately, this often serves as a barrier to entry for many, myself included as I can only think of a handful that I've finished but I still love the genre and keep coming back for more punishment

I came to talk about Metroidvanias, as well. I hate forced backtracking. In all games. And what's weird is that despite the fact that that's a core part of the genre and why I don't really care for the genre, I love Metroid and Castlevania (I think that's more characters and atmosphere though).

What about upside down castles?

I also love Metroid and Castlevania for their atmosphere and level design (mostly), which helps with the backtracking. It's more about being lost and figuring out an unknown space and exploring and discovering cool secrets. In this sense, even VVVVVV is a Metroidvania. But I feel most games don't do it right. Being such a huge Super Metroid fan, I should love this genre to pieces, and yet so many that I've tried just felt a bit empty, or lacking a certain je ne sais quoi.

Or maybe I just hit that saturation point?

[marurun]

TBH I hated the upside-down castle in SoTN. All the jumps are just the wrong heights. Actual traversal is just a PITA.

[o.pwuaioc]

TBH I hated the upside-down castle in SoTN. All the jumps are just the wrong heights. Actual traversal is just a PITA.

That's what I was getting at. A friend put it nicely: it was probably an afterthought to artificially lengthen the game.

[opa]

The upside down castle sucked. I feel like the devs had five minutes to extend the game before release.

"What do we do, guys? We've got a deadline to meet!"
*right-clicks* *rotates by 180 degrees* *save-as 'map2*

[Limewater]

I like backtracking if it serves a purpose. Like, if you return to an area you have already visited with new abilities that reveal new secrets, or see how much easier it is to pass through after an earlier struggle.

I feel like backtracking compares pretty favorably to the classic retro-game staple of starting over from level 1 every time you sit down to play.

[ElkinFencer10]

I like backtracking if it serves a purpose. Like, if you return to an area you have already visited with new abilities that reveal new secrets, or see how much easier it is to pass through after an earlier struggle.

I like backtracking if it's for optional stuff. I despite backtracking if the game mandates it.

[Limewater]

So, for those who hate backtracking, how is backtracking different from/more annoying than a shoot-em-up having three consecutive identical waves of enemies, or killing the same two enemy types for half a game? Or how is it different from starting over on world 1-1 every time you turn on your NES to play Super Mario Bros.?

If you're 40 or older, you probably started playing and "fell in love with" video games at a time when the ability to save a game and pick up where you left off was a relatively uncommon feature. You've probably played through levels 1-1 and 1-2 of Super Mario Bros. over a hundred times on you way to other levels, or played trough all of World 1 of Super Mario Bros. 3 a similar amount.

Is backtracking really significantly different than this? If so, how? I am asking sincerely. I am not trying to say anyone is wrong for not liking backtracking any more than I'd say anyone is wrong for not liking fighting games or whatever.

Or are these all things you tolerated previously but have become annoying to you as you've gotten older?

If you're younger, I can have an easier time understanding the aversion to backtracking, particularly if you've mostly played games that save your progress.

[MrPopo]

I have seen some games do backtracking poorly; these are games that have the backtrack section being too long and/or not having a power curve, so going through the old section you have to go just as carefully as the first time. In a Metroid or Castlevania, when the structure has you go through an old area you are much stronger, so you blast through enemies much faster. That adds a level of satisfaction and helps sell the power gains, while the latest enemies are always taking about the same amount of effort as older enemies (or more, as their movesets get more advanced).

[RobertAugustdeMeijer]

"Metroidvanias, I really enjoy the exploration and the way progress is made. By the end of the game you're generally feeling like there's nothing you can't do."

Yeah, I always hope to feel this. I love AM2R and Guacamelee, but there isn't much point in backtracking other than getting 100%. Hollow Knight does it correctly.