How do people live without medical insurance?

[flex wood]

Because I live in Australia.

Where almost every wild animal can kill you.

My problem with obama care is that it didn't try to offset the cost of any of it by raising taxes on the insurance companies that are going to be making a ton of extra money now that health insurance is mandatory, so we ended up with employers that wanted to cut peoples hours or, in the case of some of the service industry here, they are taking money out of peoples tips (just the tips).

And yes I realize that there will be increased tax revenue due to obama care but I think a program that seems designed to put money in the pockets of these companies should be paying a little bit more at the very least.

[J T]

I wonder, if someone without health insurance attempts to commit suicide like put a gun to your head and pull the trigger but it doesn't kill you and the surgeons bring you back without your consent. Would you be required to pay the $15,000+ hospital bill? I mean that would be the ultimate fuck you haha, oh hey I know you tried killing yourself because your life sucks but hey we brought you back. Oh yeah and now your are permanently disfigured and will be in debt for the next decade or so. Your welcome.


Sorry I had that discussion with my best friend is in medical school right now and he didn't know what would happen.

Unless the hospital decides to waive it as charity care, then you likely would have to pay. Not only that, but some insurers refuse to pay for self-inflicted injuries and suicide, despite there being federal rules against this, so you might get that big "eff you" bill even if you had insurance. And what if you die? Then your family could very well have to pay for it.

[marurun]

Because I live in Australia.

My problem with obama care is that it didn't try to offset the cost of any of it by raising taxes on the insurance companies that are going to be making a ton of extra money now that health insurance is mandatory, so we ended up with employers that wanted to cut peoples hours or, in the case of some of the service industry here, they are taking money out of peoples tips (just the tips).

The Affordable Care Act requires that insurance companies use no more than 20% of insurance premiums to pay for salaries, administration, advertising, etc... Basically, at least 80% of what you pay MUST go into paying for health care or preventive health programs. If they spend too much on overhead they must issue refunds. If the primary policy holder is a company (as in the case of employer-subsidized insurance), the company gets the refund. That does help reduce costs some for businesses. It also helps control costs by ensuring that whatever plan a company picks, they are guaranteed 80% goes to health costs. So instead of taxing insurance companies, they just capped them.

The only way to truly stop the ridiculous inflation of health care costs is to make some changes to tort law and nationalize health care. Capitalism and health care are not necessarily good bed-fellows. Providing for needs (rather than wants) is one area where government traditionally has an advantage.

[jvalentine98]

If you don't have insurance and require medical attention, you basically say, "Screw you, society! I am a free-rider! I take medical care and don't pay for it! Suckers!!!!" (Not having health insurance in our society also violates the categorical imperative.)

.....

Personally, I think that the United States should universal, basic health care paid for through everyone's taxes (basically, medicare for everyone paid through something close to a head tax). We can, as a society, afford to provide basic health care to all of our citizens; providing basic health care to all of our citizens (coupled with reducing the barriers to entry in medical professions) would drastically reduce the costs of health care over the long term; and nothing about providing basic health care to all of our citizens would prevent certain members of our society from purchsing better or extra health care if they so desired.

"Obamacare" is a small step in that direction; so, as much as the people complain about it, I think it is sound policy.

Obamacare penalizes poor people. If your job doesn't offer insurance (which is almost everyone working part time) then you have to pay out of pocket. It would basically take ALL of one part time paycheck each month to have insurance. Nobody can do that and still survive.

So you're left without insurance, but you still get fined, because your poor and can't afford insurance.

You're screwed either way

Also by taking the fine out of income tax returns, that's less money people have to spend in our economy. It's no good. You're gonna force people with low income to pay something and then penalize them because they are low income and need that insurance money to eat or have a vehicle to get to that low income job of theirs.

The minimum money you can make is around $10,000 in a year and you can still be fined. Yep, that's an income of less than $1,000 per month, and they are still going to fine you. By 2016, that minimum fine will be $695 out of your taxes...and if you are making around $10,000 by working part time, that $695 fine will probably be ALL of your taxes.

If you develop some kind of terminal disease that's going to bankrupt your family for years to come, you're probably better off dead.

[marurun]

Obamacare penalizes poor people. If your job doesn't offer insurance (which is almost everyone working part time) then you have to pay out of pocket. It would basically take ALL of one part time paycheck each month to have insurance. Nobody can do that and still survive.

This is mostly incorrect.

Those who are poor still qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid counts as their insurance. They don't have to have third party. Those who don't qualify for Medicaid but still can't afford full premiums can get subsidies in the insurance marketplaces. They are graduated subsidies, so the less you make, the less your insurance costs.

There is a trouble area in states that declined to accept Medicaid expansion. There's a non-trivial group of individuals in those states who make too much to qualify for Medicaid but not enough to qualify for subsidies (the subsidies apply above a particular income level). The Medicaid expansion was supposed to take care of that by increasing the income level at which Medicaid was available, but states that declined the expansion don't have coverage for that group. It is a problem that will need to be remedied.

For the record, I work at a school that has medical programs, and so we all have to know how this stuff works.

[jvalentine98]

Obamacare penalizes poor people. If your job doesn't offer insurance (which is almost everyone working part time) then you have to pay out of pocket. It would basically take ALL of one part time paycheck each month to have insurance. Nobody can do that and still survive.

This is mostly incorrect.

Those who are poor still qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid counts as their insurance. They don't have to have third party. Those who don't qualify for Medicaid but still can't afford full premiums can get subsidies in the insurance marketplaces. They are graduated subsidies, so the less you make, the less your insurance costs.

There is a trouble area in states that declined to accept Medicaid expansion. There's a non-trivial group of individuals in those states who make too much to qualify for Medicaid but not enough to qualify for subsidies (the subsidies apply above a particular income level). The Medicaid expansion was supposed to take care of that by increasing the income level at which Medicaid was available, but states that declined the expansion don't have coverage for that group. It is a problem that will need to be remedied.

For the record, I work at a school that has medical programs, and so we all have to know how this stuff works.

When I worked part time, I made roughly $10,00 a year, which is a couple hundred a week. Pretty average for part time. I lived with a roomate, got a little support here and there from my folks when things got rough. But I was denied food stamps. $10,000 was too much income for food stamps since I didn't have kids.

I checked on insurance premiums, and they were all in the general area of $125-$150 per month. I couldn't afford that. That was more than 10% of my monthly income and I had to pay rent and buy food and other necessities. My life was poverty, officially, but I made too much to get assistance.

That is a problem, seeing how service jobs are the norm now days. Millions work in service jobs and hover around the poverty line. Not homeless, and not completely unemployed and hungry, but barely making it. The government says these people can't get benefits. Forcing them to pay for insurance they can't afford is not going to help anyone.

[JsGameRoom]

That is a problem, seeing how service jobs are the norm now days. Millions work in service jobs and hover around the poverty line. Not homeless, and not completely unemployed and hungry, but barely making it. The government says these people can't get benefits. Forcing them to pay for insurance they can't afford is not going to help anyone.

I 100% agree with you.

[marurun]

I checked on insurance premiums, and they were all in the general area of $125-$150 per month. I couldn't afford that. That was more than 10% of my monthly income and I had to pay rent and buy food and other necessities. My life was poverty, officially, but I made too much to get assistance.

I reviewed the rules for subsidies and Medicaid. By the current Federal Poverty Guidelines, if you were right around $10k, you would qualify for Medicaid *IF* you live in a state which accepted the Medicaid expansion. In states that don't, they typically only offer Medicaid to those who make below 90% of the poverty threshold. $11,670 is the current poverty line for a single individual. The insurance subsidies don't kick in until 133% of the poverty line, the reason being that Medicaid expansion was supposed to go up to 133% of the poverty line.

You likely couldn't get affordable coverage was because your state decided to screw you over by not expanding Medicaid coverage. Keep in mind, the Medicaid expansion wasn't really meant to be voluntary, but the courts stepped in and changed that. The Feds even offered to pay for 90% of the cost of Medicaid expansion, but many states just didn't want to deal with it.

[Luke]

"You know what's worse than taxes?

What's worse than tax is insurance.

You got to have some insurance.

They shouldn't even call it insurance.

They just should call it ''in case shit.''

l give a company some money in case shit happens.

Now, if shit don't happen, shouldn't l get my money back?

That's right, man, you better have some medical insurance, or you gonna die.

That's right, everybody.

You got to eat right and exercise.

No, you don't, you need some coverage.

Coverage will save your life.

That's right, we all gonna die, but at least if you got some coverage...you will die on a mattress.

That's right. When l was a kid, we didn't have no insurance.

We didn't have a damn thing.

You had to be damn near dead to see the doctor.

You had to be way past Robitussin"

Chris Rock




I won't get into the economics of insurance. I won't even state my opinion on insurance. But I will say that being forced to buy something takes away from your free will.

[JsGameRoom]

"


I won't get into the economics of insurance. I won't even state my opinion on insurance. But I will say that being forced to buy something takes away from your free will.

I 100% agree.

While I do believe everybody "NEEDS" health insurance because well...hospitals are expensive. Everybody shouldn't be FORCED to have it.

Slowly and surely freedoms are being stripped away, but that's for another thread.