POLL: Bootlegs / Reproductions: What is allowed

[mjmjr25]

Any reputable repro maker says repro on the label / box / disc - I figured that was assumed. Without that, it's just a bootleg. Are some folks really ok with unmarked bootlegs? Sheesh, look at the AES scene - people literally have to pay to have carts professionally opened to have their games confirmed as original before selling them. The same thing is happening with Mega Everdrive - some carts simply can't be opened by the majority of us and EASILY pass as originals without being viewed under Hi-Res scans, etc.

This is precisely the problem - people having to open up carts to prove their games are legit. I don't think that is ever going to go away now, but we as a community can at least ebb the tide.

I went into a Pawn America a few months back and the guy had a copy of Earthbound for $159. Looked minty and I asked to look at it - picked it up and immediately knew it was a boot. Label looked day 1 factory fresh, but not quite glossy, but more importantly it felt light, about 3oz total, and an original EB is just under 4oz, which you can tell by feel. I have no doubt someone got $50-60 from the Pawn Shop for it and eventually they'll sell it to some unsuspecting kid for $160.

[entity]

The paypal thing is an interesting angle.

Ignoring the ethical issues of reproductions, having paypal make it easy to scam repro makers already makes me think they should not be allowed just to avoid problems. The "you pay paypal fees" thing on NA became such a constant problem they made it against the rules, which is good because it is was also dumb, annoying, and a little shady. The best rules have a purpose and preventing scams is a tolerable enough reason to have a rule.

But as someone who likes freedom to the point of anarchy I think people should be able to sell whatever they want.

People who knowingly sell repros as originals should be shot. People who sell repros that look exactly like their original should be constantly ridiculed (but still allowed to sell), and people who make reproductions and puts repro or alternate art on the game are still a little questionable but I have no (major) qualms with them.

If you wanted racketboy to be a haven of official non faked awesomeness, ban all of them. Why ride the slippery slope? On the other hand, they are a cancer and banning them here will do nothing to stop them. I'm not saying embrace the cancer, but recognize that reproductions are here to stay and it'll only get worse. Its the way the world will go no matter what you decide.

I abstained. I'm not a long time active member to really have a strong opinion.

[TSTR]

Went with #5. Seems to be a good balance. We're not gonna stop repros single-handedly here on RB, but at least IMO the stuff allowed through with option #5 is going to very obviously be repros or bootlegs, so there's little chance of fooling somebody.

[mjmjr25]

I'm curious at people selecting #2, please help folks like me understand your vote.

Best I can tell Luke and dsh voted #2.
Entity abstained.
TSTR, bryan_65, applequeso and myself voted #5.

Yet #2 is well-ahead. While I personally can get behind whatever the community decides, I also want to know that it's people actively dealing in our BST (and thus exposed to and invested in the concern) to be the folks swaying this debate.

[ZeroAX]

I voted for 2 because I think that as long as it's mentioned that it's a bootleg there's nothing wrong with it. Carts are going to get more rare as they get destroyed by time, and some people just want to have physical copies of the games they like even if it's a bootleg (I know I wouldn't mind getting a bootleg of Megaman Willy Wars even thought it got an official release in Europe)

[ninjainspandex]

Any reputable repro maker says repro on the label / box / disc - I figured that was assumed. Without that, it's just a bootleg. Are some folks really ok with unmarked bootlegs? Sheesh, look at the AES scene - people literally have to pay to have carts professionally opened to have their games confirmed as original before selling them. The same thing is happening with Mega Everdrive - some carts simply can't be opened by the majority of us and EASILY pass as originals without being viewed under Hi-Res scans, etc.

Well most reputable repro makers just make repros games that were never released in the US, so there is no reason to write repro on a cart of say a Mega Man the Wiley Wars because of course there never was a Genesis version in the first place. Now if someone made the repro with the Euro Megadrive label exactly that would be a bit shady.

[dsheinem]

Any reputable repro maker says repro on the label / box / disc - I figured that was assumed. Without that, it's just a bootleg. Are some folks really ok with unmarked bootlegs?

I am ok with an unlabeled bootleg if it is listed as such in the thread when I buy it. I am not sure what instituting a new a rule here would do, though...

Since we're playing with hypotheticals:

Let's say two people are selling a repro MUSHA cart that looks identical to the original.

Case 1: One guy knows they are selling a repro, one doesn't. The guy who does know it is a repro DOESN'T list it as a repro on his trade list, and sells it for $150. The guy who doesn't know it is a repro also sells it for $150.

Both people would be liable for a -1 and a refund if the buyer learned they bought a repro and were unhappy with that. This is what our current rules would allow.

Case 2: Let's say this time the guy who knows it is a repro lists it as such, but the guy who doesn't know it is a repro of course still doesn't. This time, the guy who lists it as a repro sells his for $50 and the guy who doesn't sells it for $150.

In this case, only the second guy would be liable for a -1 and a refund since the first guy was up front about what he was selling and everyone was happy. This is what our current rules would allow.


Option #2 in this poll would not allow the first guy to sell his repro in either scenario unless he altered the cart or label in some way. How obvious must that alteration be? Who decides?


Notice that in your example, Mike, YOU were the one who did your homework when considering buying an expensive cart. I think the onus is on the buyer, and that a rule for sellers is not a good idea in this case. We might simply post a guideline in the existing rules thread warning people that there's a growing repro/bootleg market and to be conscientious of this when buying/selling more expensive titles...but if the market dictates that the carts need to be inspected first, then a seller should expect that for certain items.

That said, if someone regularly is selling repros and not listing them as such, and thus getting negative feedback regularly, they'd be banned from BST anyway (as is our practice now). As is also the practice now, when a thread or certain items look shady, the community and/or mod team already tend to ask the seller questions to verify the condition of their items. I'm not sure that a new rule would stop scammers or stop people from investigating sketchy carts...

[Opa Opa]

5. I don't mind translations of games that never made it into English but leave the expensive games alone.

Repros are all fine and dandy for a NTSC-"U" FFV cart but once some of you guys start trying to track down legit rare and desirable titles you might start whistling a different tune.

[mjmjr25]

[Notice that in your example, Mike, YOU were the one who did your homework when considering buying an expensive cart.

Correct, but i've been the expensive cart game awhile now so I (unfortunately know I have to be that guy and ask for PCB pics) because this has become so mainstream on SOME forums (to note, some other forums do not allow them at all, (shmups) - others have caveats like our poll is suggesting (neo, AO)) and i'd like our community to be one of the communities to say, "No, this isn't ok - we won't be part of the proliferation on any level."

There is no reason I can see, or that has been presented in this thread yet, that would make me think undistinguishable repros of expensive SNES / AES / GEN / carts, released in the US, should be "repro'd", I feel the same about SFC carts that have no language barrier, but at least if in a US shell, it is clearly not an original, so those are not "as egregious", if you will.

[TSTR]

Caveat emptor, for sure, as a general rule of thumb. Here's my thought process on all the options:

1 - BREAK THE SEVENTH SEAL. Icky. High risk. No thanks.

2 - Enticing, but there's way more pressure on the seller to verify their wares. Plus, there's a big gray area as to how that process is handled. Sounds too complicated.

3 - Too exclusive. Kills off any chance of sweet translated RPGs that never came over.

4 - Way too exclusive. Kills off Action 52's, Neo Geo multis, and other clearly boot items from overseas that may be of interest to some folks.

5 - Best balance. Lets in all the funky multicarts and translations, but keeps out the high risk items. Only issue here is it keeps out things like RetroZone repros and other obvious, non-deceptive items. However, this isn't the only place to find that stuff online, so buyers should look elsewhere.