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Menegrothx wrote:Why Quake 3 and not the original? If you're going for competitive games that are extremely well designed, why not mention Counter Strike?

Gamerforlife wrote:For me, best of the best = most polished and refined. That's taking innovation and influence right out of the equation and focusing solely on execution of a game's ideas.

The problem is that there are so much polished and refined games that it's impossible to make a list out of just 100 of them.

Not in my world. I would love to live in the same alternate reality that you do

I honestly cannot think of 100 games that I would call polished and refined to perfection

Gamerforlife wrote:Not in my world. I would love to live in the same alternate reality that you do

I honestly cannot think of 100 games that I would call polished and refined to perfection

Opinions. Personally, I found Resident Evil 4 to be severely flawed in design. But you loved it and found it to be the perfect game. Which is fine, but doesn't mean much of anything other than that.

Trying to make "lists" like these is an effort of futility and all of them are 100% subjective. Making them for fun is all good but pushing them off as factual or anything of the sort is silly.

Gamerforlife wrote:I honestly cannot think of 100 games that I would call polished and refined to perfection

Play more games, do research, familiarize yourself with new platforms and genres, have an open mind and go out of your comfort zone.

Like I said, there's a fine line between excellence and perfection that very few games manage to cross. I think that there's often luck involved when a game manages to becomes timeless and iconic, even if the people who made it were visionary geniuses. And that's not something that happens only in games, that also goes for music albums, movies and so on.

General_Norris wrote:Well, I just find the distinction between cardboard and digital games to be kind of silly they are both games. Magic is Magic, no matter if the card is a picture on a screen or piece of paper.

The definition of sport varies so much depending on who you ask and there's so little cultural overlap I think I would prefer to leave them out.

There are debates on what sports are considered sports, but how can there be a debate on if a sport is a game? Of course they are games o.O.

Menegrothx wrote:Why Quake 3 and not the original? If you're going for competitive games that are extremely well designed, why not mention Counter Strike?

I think the original (Multiplayer-wise) is great but not as great as Q3. I'm perfectly aware of the horrible debates this statement can create

Concerning Counter-Strike, I think it's great, but "very good" great, not best of the best of the masterpieces great. Headshots and fully automatic rifles aren't as interesting as rocket jumping and short-range shotguns if you ask me.

I thought you were only intrested in flawless design. When it comes to map design and balance, it's hard to beat Counter Strike. That's why it's still so popular as an eSport. And besides that, it's also a very influental game anyways. It's pretty much the first (popular) FPS that brought semi-realism and tactical gameplay into the realm of FPS gaming. If you're impatient and you just rush in to situations guns blazing and ignoring teamwork, you'll get executed by a swift headshot in no time.

I'd also add Warcraft 3 to the list for the same reasons as Counter Strike (balanced and well designed competitive gameplay with a lot of depth for players intrested in high end PvP and awesome mod community)

Menegrothx wrote:I thought you were only intrested in flawless design.

Well, I don't think you need to be flawless to be beyond amazing and not having flaws can't really make up for a great but not incredible concept.

I mean, half of my list have pretty well known flaws (The mana system in Magic, XCOM's graphics, Tetris TGM3's art direction, etc.). But Citizen Kane has a huge plot hole too, so I don't think a small flaw here and there matters a lot.


I think CS is the best game you can make with OHKO and automatic weapons which is both praise and faint praise so as to speak. I'm unconfortable listing WCIII because I don't quite get the game, I don't think I like it, so I would be going by what others think, not me.

General_Norris wrote: what do you consider the best of the best, those games that are beyond amazing and which crush even the most tense titles you can think of under their boot?

Capcom vs. SNK 2 <period> Best 2d fighter ever. It would be dogma for another fighter to one up it, so it never will happen.

Any other titles I'd mention would just be fav's of mine. Totally subjective, and only worth mentioning in a flame/hate thread.

Majors wrote:Capcom vs. SNK 2 <period> Best 2d fighter ever. It would be dogma for another fighter to one up it, so it never will happen.

Let's start talking, just listing isn't too fun. Why is it so great? Remember I have not played it, though

Gamerforlife wrote:Resident Evil 4 would be on my list too. Perfectly designed in every way and I should know. I did EVERYTHING in the original Gamecube version and there really wasn't a single part of that game that wasn't well designed

Well, except for the part about it not being scary int he least.