Lives & Continues

[sabrage]

Everyone has had their share of holding several dozen lives in a Mario game. However, Modern Mario games have essentially no penalty for a "game over", other than having to spend a few seconds clicking "continue".

It's even worse in Skyward Sword. If you "game over", you start back at the last bird statue, whether you actually saved your game or not. I don't even know why the game asks you if you want to save, or why there is a save process at all! The game should just automatically save at whatever point it is making these checkpoints in the first place.

As for Mario, starting with Yoshi's Island the game saves every time you finish a level. They practically removed death from that game (and I think it was a brilliant innovation) so what purpose do lives serve besides yet another thing to collect?

And don't even get me started on where the Zelda series is now. It's a mere shadow of what it used to be, and Nintendo only gets away with it because they keep their fans so starved for quality games.

Since we're talking not only lives, but save systems too, I gotta ask...

What are your opinions on Resident Evil and its Ink Ribbons? You actually have to use an item to save, and this item has a very finite supply.

Pointless tedium. I think games should let me save whenever I want, or at least any time I do something significant, so to not only give me save points but to limit the number of times I can use them? I feel like the Resident Evil series (from an outsider's perspective, I've only played 4 and a bit of 5) had a really forced approach to "horror" between the limited saves and the tank controls. The resource scarcity would've been enough, as the simplistic brilliance of Amnesia proves.

[BoneSnapDeez]

Since we're talking not only lives, but save systems too, I gotta ask...

What are your opinions on Resident Evil and its Ink Ribbons? You actually have to use an item to save, and this item has a very finite supply.

As someone who only has time to play games in 30-60 minutes spurts... I HATE THAT SHIT. Lunar 2 does that too, a huge black mark on an otherwise perfect game.

[AppleQueso]

^I thought Yoshi's Island only saves after castles?

[Ivo]

They could just give different endings or some unlockable for doing well and give infinite lives with a counter of how many you lost. The approach should shift to reward the good gamer over punishing the bad one with lost progress. It may seem like it is a small difference but it is not. Although the reward for the good gamer is often a performance boost, which also doesn't make that much sense as that is not what that type of player needs (or necessarily desires). It is better to unlock a hard mode than give the good player a more powerful character / weapon for normal mode when he already has no problems with it.

As it turns out and has been mentioned, too often you can "farm" for lives which is really just outdated BS from a transition from arcades (where there was a decidedly functional aspect to lives and continues) to home. People that want to do a no lives lost or under X lives run could do that and show the counter for bragging rights.

As for limited saving, that can serve a legitimate purpose depending on the game design (depending on the game and system) but I once again insist there is no good reason for not having some kind of unlimited suspend save option (that deletes the save when you resume, if the game's design calls for that). And by unlimited I mean you can do it any number of times, any time, anywhere (including during cut scenes!).

Ivo.

[ninjainspandex]

Since we're talking not only lives, but save systems too, I gotta ask...

What are your opinions on Resident Evil and its Ink Ribbons? You actually have to use an item to save, and this item has a very finite supply.

As someone who only has time to play games in 30-60 minutes spurts... I HATE THAT SHIT. Lunar 2 does that too, a huge black mark on an otherwise perfect game.

lunar 2 has limited saves?? it must be just in the sega cd version because im playing the ps1 version and i can save whenever wherever, i love it, all rpgs should be like this. i like rpgs for story not for challenge generally, when i want a challenge i pop in a shmup or a platformer. rpgs are my relaxin time.

[sabrage]

There needs to be barriers for gaming. In my opinion if a game offers unlimited lives the checkpoints should be almost non existent. If the game saves at the start of each new thing there should be a life limit. If I can die 500000000 times with no consequences...what the hell is the point of playing the game?

The point of playing the game is to have fun. I've died at least 50000000 times in Super Meat Boy, and I still love the game.

They could just give different endings or some unlockable for doing well and give infinite lives with a counter of how many you lost. As it turns out and has been mentioned, too often you can "farm" for lives which is really just outdated BS from a transition from arcades (where there was a decidedly functional aspect to lives and continues) to home. People that want to do a no lives lost or under X lives run could do that and show the counter for bragging rights.

To address both of your points, there doesn't need to be a "new" punishment for dying. The tried-and-true "send you back to the last checkpoint" has worked and will continue to work for years, and that's true whether or not has limited lives. I don't have a problem with that system at all, it's the whole "send you back five levels" (or the entire game!) style of play that's frustrating to me. I already beat that level, I already proved that I can do it, why the hell would I need to do it again? The repetition is only fun up to and until the point that I've completed the task; after that point, having to do it again is only an exercise in futility and frustration.

[Zing]

^I thought Yoshi's Island only saves after castles?

That was Super Mario World. Yoshi's Island saves after every level.

[AppleQueso]

I'm going to have to fire up YI and double check that later today...

[KDub]

Yoshi's Island does save every level.

Resident Evil's ink ribbon system is my least favorite save system ever; it is one reason why I've never completed a game in the series, no matter how much I appreciate the games. I'd be fine not being able to save when ever and where ever I want but the ribbons make it extra evil. I don't always have time to dedicate the hours the ribbons make me play and then if you die before you can save again, or god forbid need to go outside, all that time seems like a waste.

I think the challenge of having to save in specific rooms and needing to back track to those would of been enough.

[Gamerforlife]

I like checkpoints. I think lives and continues are relics from the past. I do believe, however, that checkpoints should save your status. So if you had half your health when you activated a checkpoint, when you die and go back to that checkpoint you should STILL have half health. I hate when players reach a checkpoint and just kill themselves to get their health back. That's like using a cheat

I also hate games that save your experience points even if you die. Again, it's like the game is letting you cheat. If you die and the game takes you back to a checkpoint, it's essentially resetting time back to when you originally hit that checkpoint and erasing everything that happened afterward. Therefore, any XP you acquired after that checkpoint should disappear.