Developer calling Used game sales #1 issue in the industry..

[Gamerforlife]

Just want to throw in that I thought Heavy Rain was a pretty good game with a cool story. Just throwing that out there to counteract some of the hate he's getting for this article

Regardless of whether or not we call him a dick for his comments, he can make some decent games

[AppleQueso]

You don't hear the movie industry, music industry, novel industry, or comic book industries whining about used sales, do you?

Yes.

Actually, it used to be a lot more common for those industries to complain about used sales. Book publishers have tried a few times to ban public libraries. However, these industries have had more time to get used to it and give up on fighting it.

That's what makes this situation even more pathetic. Used Games have been around since the beginning, the video game industry has had the better part of 3 and a half decades to get 'used' it, and NOW they're complaining?

[BurningDoom]

You don't hear the movie industry, music industry, novel industry, or comic book industries whining about used sales, do you?

Yes.

Actually, it used to be a lot more common for those industries to complain about used sales. Book publishers have tried a few times to ban public libraries. However, these industries have had more time to get used to it and give up on fighting it.

Didn't know about the book publishers, but I guess it makes sense. It would be like video rental places going free. That's quite a bit different than used sales, though. That's just plain free.

I do know a bit about the comic and movie industries, and I can't remember either making a big fit about it. In fact I remember reading about how the movie industries made deals with rental chains, encouraging rental. And I know Marvel Comics encouraged comic conventions in the Silver Age when they were just starting to show up (Stan Lee himself attended a few); which is basically encouraging used sales of comics.

[AppleQueso]

I don't know if the music industry specifically went into an outrage over used sales necessarily, but I know they were initially strongly against radio. Movie studios were pretty apprehensive about home video too.

[flamepanther]

In fact I remember reading about how the movie industries made deals with rental chains, encouraging rental.

Some studios tried to sue rental stores very early on, but this was squelched very quickly since there was no legal grounds for it. That was the whole reason they started making deals with them. I can only find a few vague references on-line, since this was all in the very early 1980s. So, since they can't sue the chains, they charge them much higher prices than they charge to retail stores, or they sell them inferior versions, or they cut them a special deal for delaying new releases etc. They hamper rentals where they can, and they take a cut of rentals where they can, but rest assured that over all they hate the existence of rental chains. They're just hating it quietly now.

[jfrost]

I'm not going to hold it against Gamestop for seeing an opportunity to make money and saying to itself "Gee, what's the best way to pay the bills, make payroll, please the investors, and have some profit?".

Gamestop isn't the disease, it's a symptom. People forget that there was a time when there was no baseline for how much a game cost. The trusty old supply and demand chart was used to assess what the correct amount to charge was.

But in the late 90's and early 2000's this went away and this artificial baseline pricing scheme came into use where all games received the same MSRP no matter what the demand was.

It smacks of pride that companies will complain that prices are too high for every game EXCEPT FOR THEIR OWN, which is essentially what the dipshit in question is doing.

Heavy Rain? Sorry, dude. No brand name recognition. From a company most people have never heard of. Be glad you sold as well as you did. Most developers would sell their souls to have gotten that many sales with a brand new IP. But I betcha if they'd lopped even $10 off that price, a LOT of money would have found its way into the publisher and developers pockets instead of gamestops coffers.

Great post.

When you think about it, it's actually very funny that the publishers often complain that only a few games eat up a ridiculously large chunk of the industry. That stands to reason, because only they (Call of Duty, Madden, perhaps) justify costing $60 at launch. We may debate their merits as good games or whatever, but the fact is that they sell well and that price point seems justified.

Now, for most other games, they can't and won't sell at $60. The used market actually makes them approach their "real" price point.

On the PC there are games launching at lower price points already (even lower than before; racing games are usually $40, the same price point of Serious Sam 3. Now Hard Reset launched for $30). I hope that catches on.

[AppleQueso]

I'm not going to hold it against Gamestop for seeing an opportunity to make money and saying to itself "Gee, what's the best way to pay the bills, make payroll, please the investors, and have some profit?".

Gamestop isn't the disease, it's a symptom. People forget that there was a time when there was no baseline for how much a game cost. The trusty old supply and demand chart was used to assess what the correct amount to charge was.

But in the late 90's and early 2000's this went away and this artificial baseline pricing scheme came into use where all games received the same MSRP no matter what the demand was.

It smacks of pride that companies will complain that prices are too high for every game EXCEPT FOR THEIR OWN, which is essentially what the dipshit in question is doing.

Heavy Rain? Sorry, dude. No brand name recognition. From a company most people have never heard of. Be glad you sold as well as you did. Most developers would sell their souls to have gotten that many sales with a brand new IP. But I betcha if they'd lopped even $10 off that price, a LOT of money would have found its way into the publisher and developers pockets instead of gamestops coffers.

Great post.

When you think about it, it's actually very funny that the publishers often complain that only a few games eat up a ridiculously large chunk of the industry. That stands to reason, because only they (Call of Duty, Madden, perhaps) justify costing $60 at launch. We may debate their merits as good games or whatever, but the fact is that they sell well and that price point seems justified.

Now, for most other games, they can't and won't sell at $60. The used market actually makes them approach their "real" price point.

On the PC there are games launching at lower price points already (even lower than before; racing games are usually $40, the same price point of Serious Sam 3. Now Hard Reset launched for $30). I hope that catches on.

How much of a cut does the console manufacturer take away from console game sales anyhow? I'm wondering how much of a factor that plays in the price point.

[Inazuma]

Just speaking for myself here.

I think most new games are overpriced. Some games are extremely fucking amazing and are honestly worth a price tag of $60 to $80, but most aren't. Why should I spend $60 now when I could just wait months or years and get it for $20 or less?

Game makers need to price their games fairly. Almost every game is $60 or $70, regardless of how much content it has, how much it cost to make, or how fun it is. That doesn't make fucking sense. If I think a game is overpriced, I will buy it used. If the game companies don't like it, they should lower their price and I would be more likely to buy it new.

And the other main reason I won't buy a game new is if I specifically do not want to support that company. For example, I stopped buying new Sony products but I still buy used PS2 and PSP games.

Sometimes I will buy a game new specifically because my money goes to support a certain company. For example, I love the idea of people making high quality physical media homebrew games for retro consoles, so I will try my best to buy those games new.

You know why today's game companies started bitching about used games all of a sudden? It's the only form of ownership we have left. Physical media gives us some rights and control. The game companies have started to take ownership away from us via download games, DLC, DRM, online activation, etc, and it has spoiled them. We are quickly reaching the point where all games will be download only and we will have no ownership, control or rights at all.

[flex wood]

How much of a cut does the console manufacturer take away from console game sales anyhow? I'm wondering how much of a factor that plays in the price point.

I wonder if it is possible to find that out. I've never even thought about that before. My guess would be a third at most to a fifth at least. Look at the price between a game that's on PC and console maybe the difference is what they take. Imagine windows charging devs to release games on PC ha.

[Xeogred]

*yawns*

Lost track of how many times I've seen developers complain about this.