The life and history of a gaming culture: DDR in Japan

[seishinbyou]

Sure, if you want to comment on it in your journal, feel free.

The "DDR Hating Manager" tends to be more of a "Music game hating manager", though DDR is always an easy target. There was trouble twice in the past year and a half at Tokyo Leisure Land in Odaiba with the inexperienced manager that head office sent moving all the music games to the back side of the arcade cramped in next to the batting cages and basketball machines (read: can't hear anything). The second such manager moved the Beatmania IIDX machines next to the bathroom and scattered the music games to far corners and dead spaces where the manager tried to hide them. Both managers were ...reassigned rather quickly because music games are the 2nd largest money makers in that place next to the UFO catchers. It is massive and people come from as far away as Nagano and Osaka to play there once in a while.

About the difficulty, the Japanese are quite happy with it, and there are many ridiculous charts from SN2/X/X2 that keep the few absolute hardcore players amused (some are a bit too ridiculous though). Still, there are many casual gamers and groups of players that *only* play light/standard mode and even the better of them only play to try and get all Marvellous on simple songs rather than stumble through the Expert/Challenge stepcharts. Some of them are over 40 and 50 years old now, but I don't think that is an excuse, either. At a couple of the arcades where I play, some have played for years but even though some of them play on Expert difficulty, rarely do I see anything close to a Perfect Full Combo on anything except for the easier songs.

There was one ITG machine and 2 PIU machines (at the same arcade) for a brief while in a small arcade (World Game Circus) but it didn't get much traffic, was rumored to be harassed and indirectly shut down by Konami, and as I mentioned in the essay, it didn't click with the local gamers. PIU was amusing though confusing and ITG was seen as an overachiever's game. Some charts and tunes were liked from the home version (bootleg copies were sold in Japan at the time) but the difficulty was offputting to most but the really hardcore players, and even then they were still happier with DDR anyways, so yeah, ITG never really got a chance to catch on.

One aspect of ITG I always wondered about was if Konami never released Supernova and later mixes, and Extreme was the last, if ITG caught on in Japan, what kind of user-created content would we see? I joke that it would be all Foonmix (Stepmania project from years ago) and a bunch of Vocaloid tunes, but who knows.

Apologies, I ramble once in a while. This is probably why my essay is over 100 pages.

[Erik_Twice]

About the difficulty, the Japanese are quite happy with it, and there are many ridiculous charts from SN2/X/X2 that keep the few absolute hardcore players amused (some are a bit too ridiculous though).

Interesting, that probably explains why Konami is so reticent with the difficulty, if the Japanese are happy with it, there's no reason to add harder charts as they probably fear that throwing the hardcore players a bone will reduce the appeal of the game for newbies.

It's a very different mentality when you compare how other games handle the difficulty. When Pump it Up NX2 was released the lack of new challenges drove many players out of the game, for example.

Too bad Konami never gave Dead End a Challenge chart tough

[quoteStill, there are many casual gamers and groups of players that *only* play light/standard mode and even the better of them only play to try and get all Marvellous on simple songs rather than stumble through the Expert/Challenge stepcharts.[/quote]
That surprises me, I have never heard of anyone Perfect Attacking easier songs instead of moving up. Around here nobody tries to score well until they can pass most songs or they hit a wall (normally Max 300)

[seishinbyou]

Too bad Konami never gave Dead End a Challenge chart tough

There is, "Dead End Groove Radar Special" from SN2. It is completely ridiculous and one of the few songs that has never been AAAd (All Perfects) though it has been score AAAd under the X/X2 scoring system (>=99% max score)

There are some ridiculously hard charts in later mixes, but many players don't even touch them. Really hard charts don't drive players to the game. In fact it does the opposite. Just last night when playing I saw a couple playing some light songs casually but when there were a bunch of arrows (4 or 5 with freeze arrows) on the screen at one time and they couldn't keep up, they walked off the stage and left.

That surprises me, I have never heard of anyone Perfect Attacking easier songs instead of moving up. Around here nobody tries to score well until they can pass most songs or they hit a wall (normally Max 300)

Well at the lower difficulties, many try to MA (Marvellous attack) them. The timing window with Marvellous is so small it is really difficult to do, even on an easy song, but that is the goal for quite a few because well...that is what they want to do and for some that I know, getting a full marvellous combo is an amazing feeling for them and they love it. Getting by on Expert/Challenge songs where such things are unrealistic for them to get full Marvellous combos are not interesting.

[Erik_Twice]

There is, "Dead End Groove Radar Special" from SN2.

Haha, don't you think it's highly suspicious that I mention Dead End of all songs with a wink at the end? XD

I have seen and played Dead End GRS. It's the worst chart I have ever seen in a game. It looks like someone puked arrows and they put it on the game as a joke

Really hard charts don't drive players to the game. In fact it does the opposite. Just last night when playing I saw a couple playing some light songs casually but when there were a bunch of arrows (4 or 5 with freeze arrows) on the screen at one time and they couldn't keep up, they walked off the stage and left.

Of course, when you add hard charts, you shouldn't remove the easy ones!

I don't think that adding some harder charts would make less people play. In the end, I think that if someone is going to be afraid of playing because of a hard song, there are already plenty of impossible-looking songs in the game.

How many are being scared by Mei Challenge that were not scared off by Max 300, for example? I don't think it would really scare anyone to add harder songs.

That said, anything that makes the game more beginner-friendly is good on my book.

for them to get full Marvellous combos are not interesting.

That makes a lot of sense, thanks!

[seishinbyou]

Okay, I thought you were talking about Dead End GRS but since I don't really know anyone on this site and hints/sarcasm don't translate across the internet, I was just playing it safe. I can't stand that chart, either.

Yeah, harder songs themself aren't a turn off par se (well, it is to some people, but that is another story). With Max 300, you had to play that as the Extra Stage, but this was just something extra and at the time most people were struggling with just passing it so if you failed it, you weren't alone. It was fast, but the patterns were pretty straightforward. In general though, the most popular songs on the machine (and the eAmuse network) tend to be the more popular licensed songs or crossovers from other Bemani games. The hardest songs barely ever get touched from the looks of the song rankings.

Of course, one statement I have heard is "If you don't want to play the expert songs, just play light difficulty" though around SN2 when the difficulty of the boss songs was ramped up on not just expert, but light and standard as well, it put some of the not-so-expert players off the song completely (there was no comfortable way to play the song), though this of course does not apply to everyone.

Oh, on that last quote of mine you quoted, I don't know if I was clear on that, but on the topic of Full Marvellous Combos, it is pretty tough to do on the easiest of songs with such a small timing window, but while it is tough on an easy song, it is almost unheard of on Expert songs with the exception of a few players and songs. Most people can't afford to put in the ridiculous hours and money into the game to even try to get to that level, so an MFC on an easier song is a nice balance to some, especially to the crowds I see at the Odaiba Leisure Land arcade, and it gives them great satisfaction (they *love* to talk about it after someone gets one). I tend to be someone that doesn't care about getting all Marvellous steps, just all Perfect or higher on songs, so I do PFC songs on all difficulties single and double, but I tend not to care about how many Marvellouses/Perfects I had unless my ratio is really bad for whatever reason. Of course, I'm aiming for all Marvellous, but realistically I will most only ever see a combination of Perfects/Marvellous at best.

Edit> Apologies if I don't make all that much sense at times. I'm just kind of warped that way and change trains of thought quite rapidly.