Most difficult non-cheap NES game?

[Limewater]

What do you consider cheap?

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Ghosts N Goblins yet. It's pretty difficult, though I guess some may consider it to be cheap. I don't. I know Ghouls and Ghosts has been mentioned on the SEGA thread.

I've only seen video, but Recca looks pretty tough. It only came out on Famicom, though.

Star Wars on the NES is pretty tough, in my opinion. The controls are a little floaty, but you can get used to them pretty quick. And it's not that bad to start with. But you essentially have to memorize the game to make progress. I don't recall feeling any deaths in that game were cheap (at least once I got used to the controls).

The NES version of SMASH TV is pretty hard as well-- especially if you force yourself to play it using the one-controller configuration. I have two NES Advantages, but I've never tried the dual-stick configuration.

[Hobie-wan]

I've only seen video, but Recca looks pretty tough. It only came out on Famicom, though.

I almost mentioned Recca, but it was only officially released in Japan and is expensive unless you get a repro. It is an awesomely brutal shmup though.

[Pingfa]

What do you consider cheap?

I should have noted that earlier really, so here's my post in the SEGA thread:

What I personally count as cheap in a game are moments where losing was unavoidable by skill alone and require memorization. In that regard, much of Revenge of Shinobi is cheap because many levels require either memorization or simply shooting shurikens every step you make. Despite this, I'm actually pretty good at the game but I acknowledge it as cheap.

So I count any moments where death was unavoidable by skill - perceptiveness, timing, positioning - alone as cheap.

On a side note, all awesome games mentioned here - although I haven't played any of the shooters (shmups). I intend to get a NES Advantage at some point for playing some shmuppy goodness. Having no NES games in the genre, what would everybody recommend to get first?
I don't have a Famicom yet so Japanese-only games are out of the equation, unfortunately.

[Limewater]

So I count any moments where death was unavoidable by skill - perceptiveness, timing, positioning - alone as cheap.

But you like Silver Surfer?

It struck me that you pretty much had to know what was coming next to be prepared for it in that game.

Oh, Street Fighter 2010 may qualify. Maybe I was just too young when I played it, and didn't give it a fair chance, but I thought that game was really tough when I played it a long time ago. I wasn't very good at video games at the time, though, so my perception may be off.

As far as Shmups, I think the general consensus is that Gradius and Lifeforce are the best on the NES. Legendary Wings is also quite challenging. I would start with one of them, if I was limiting myself to that genre.

In my opinion, the best shmup of the 8-bit era is the SMS port of R-Type, though.

[Hobie-wan]

Having no NES games in the genre, what would everybody recommend to get first?

Gradius
Guardian Legend (can be played as a shmup only if desired)
Gun Nac
Gyruss
Jackal
Legendary Wings
Life Force
Star Soldier (ugly and repetitive, but somehow fun anyway)
Zanac

Zanac and Star Soldier are plentiful and cheap on ebay. Gradius, Guardian Legend, and Life Force are easy to find as well. Gun Nac will be the hardest to find of this list, but if you get Zanac and like it, you will like Gun Nac as long as the weirdness doesn't bother you.

[Pingfa]

So I count any moments where death was unavoidable by skill - perceptiveness, timing, positioning - alone as cheap.

But you like Silver Surfer?

It struck me that you pretty much had to know what was coming next to be prepared for it in that game.

Silver Surfer definitely has some cheap moments - particularly I feel enemies that jump out from underneath such as fish or pumpkins can be cheap on occasion, and there are also times where it seems necessary to know the right path to take. However, I think overall it's mostly all about perceptiveness, timing and positioning. As long as you stay in the middle of the screen until it is necessary to move whereever else, then it is possible to avoid death most of the time - same goes for most shooters, I think.
To be honest, though, were the music not so good in Silver Surfer, I most likely wouldn't enjoy it.

Street Fighter 2010 is a favourite of mine. Very awesome game. I don't recall any cheap moments outside of boss battles, but I think it's more or less required to fight many bosses multiple times to learn their patterns. In the case of boss battles, however, I wouldn't classify these as cheap boss battles, provided it is possible to learn and adjust to their pattern in that first battle and win.
Anyhow, I recommend you give Street Fighter 2010 another chance; it's really a great game if the difficulty and the Street Fighter title isn't a big issue.

Also, R-Type is thus far my favourite 8-bit shmup too, but I haven't played very many so that isn't saying much on my part.

I'll probably start with Gradius. Thank you all for the recommendations.

[Dylan]

I'll probably start with Gradius. Thank you all for the recommendations.

Excellent choice.