Why do you choose RPG...?

[Dylan]

Could someone present me a list of say...5 or 10 of the more brutally difficult RPG's?

The Disgaea series (there are 3) are notable for being ridiculously in-depth, they'll take hours and hours to complete in their entirety (I'll admit that I only ever completed the first one). Like, we're talking level 6000 bosses here.

The Phantasy Star series on the Genesis (there are 4, but I'm mostly talking about the second) were brutal dungeon crawlers. It wasn't often that I'd come out of a dungeon with more than one mostly dead character.

I don't know if it counts (because it's a terrible game and nobody should play it), but FF II (Japan only) was hard beyond anything I've ever seen. If you don't abuse the engine, you'll never beat it. Not because it's impossible, but no human should undergo such brutal torture.

[MrEco]

I don't think he's trying to convince his friend with this thread, he just wants to hear some opinions.

You would be correct sir.

[Dylan]

Guess I forgot to post about the topic.

I like RPGs because they're full of rewards. Every time you reach a new level, gain a new skill, get new equipment, whatever, it's always exciting. There's also a sense of accomplishment RPGs have, generally do to hidden elements. It's very satisfying to beat the secret/hardest boss in the game, because you know that you've gone beyond the expectations given you. While not all RPGs have great storylines or particularly interesting characters, you can definitely find some really good, complete titles.

[the7k]

Pretty much every Shin Megami Tensei game will rape you if you try to adopt a strategy of mashing attack. You have to conciously target weaknesses and protect your own, and it can still be tough.

Exactly why I love it so much, and exactly why I have fallen out of love with just about every other RPG out there. You have to think. You have to always be on guard. Switching channels, putting X to Auto-Fire, and walking around for hours in any other RPG will get you a few easy levels. Doing it in the MegaTen games will put you on the title screen.

It's like when I was reading manga, and then I suddenly stumbled upon Berserk and Gunsmith Cats. Now, nothing else does it for me - the bar has been set so incredibly high.

[AmishSamurai]

Could someone present me a list of say...5 or 10 of the more brutally difficult RPG's?

The Disgaea series (there are 3) are notable for being ridiculously in-depth, they'll take hours and hours to complete in their entirety (I'll admit that I only ever completed the first one). Like, we're talking level 6000 bosses here.

My problem with Disgaea, and really any Nippon Ichi game, is that there's so much damn grinding involved. For example, Phantom Brave if you don't use the titlist and dungeon monk to create custom grind rooms and use them a good 500 times, you won't get past chapter 6 (out of 25 if I remember correctly). It is admittedly worth being able to massacre demons with an undead army wielding starfish, trees, bricks, giant boulders, and books though.

[Gamerforlife]

I like rpgs for a variety of reasons, but more than anything else, it's definitely the character growth and accompanying challenges that gets me into rpgs. I generally won't play a rpg that doesn't allow for power levelling and doesn't have some challenging, optional challenges to take on with your beefy character. I have often felt that rpgs more than any other genre parallel real life. As your character goes through their adventures, they evolve, the get stronger, wiser, more experienced, faster, more powerful, etc. and that is all reflected in your levels and stats. It's like real life, as we get older we change and that constant sense of growth if reflected well in rpgs

I love the sense of progression when you start a rpg game with a level 1 wimp and then finish the game with a level 99, ultimate weapon wielding, badass party that has slain every known legendary monster in the game and can bitchslap the end boss into oblivion in less than a minute. The more work it takes to power up your characters the better, which I why I love the hands on approach to modifying your stats that Final Fantasy X had rather than a traditional levelling system. It made having a god like party that could slay everything in the monster arena feel that much more satisfying

The sense of satisfaction from beefing up your characters and taking on stronger and stronger enemies is the main attraction of the whole Disgaea series(though I think that series takes it a bit too far)

I think there is definitely something to the whole upgrade thing, as these days a LOT of games have some kind of character upgrade system whether the game is a rpg or not. It's something I personally am very happy about. Though I find I play less rpgs these days, because I can get that sense of character growth from many other genres now. I'm currently playing Ninja Gaiden 2 and I love seeing Ryu get stronger as I upgrade weapons, spells, his life bar and his chi meter. With each difficulty setting you complete(I'm currently five chapters into Mentor and then will jump into Master Ninja difficulty), you have the satisfaction of knowing you can go through the game again with new game plus and destroy everyone who initially gave you trouble with your stronger Ryu.

[RemyC]

My quick research of the Shin Megami Tensei series has brought me to the conclusion that, Nocturne, is one of the pinnacles in the series. Can anybody provide me with some personal insights toward it?

My problem with Disgaea, and really any Nippon Ichi game, is that there's so much damn grinding involved. For example, Phantom Brave if you don't use the titlist and dungeon monk to create custom grind rooms and use them a good 500 times, you won't get past chapter 6

Are you advised to do so? Are the enemies before chapter 6 challenging?

[RCBH928]

I think most games have leveling because it is a goal that makes people feel satisfied and they get rewards for their work and it shows class of skilled players compared to totally new players. So it keeps people hanging on more to the game I like leveling in games like Ninja Gaiden and Super Metroid more than RPGs though, its action filled.

Whoever Cloud is, I can't believe people think they will help him(electricity generated colors) in his journey or they believe they are actually him.

I always thought I am ME in the game, I am represented in the game by Cloud. I never thought I want to be cloud or I will help my friend Cloud.

[the7k]

My quick research of the Shin Megami Tensei series has brought me to the conclusion that, Nocturne, is one of the pinnacles in the series. Can anybody provide me with some personal insights toward it?

Nocturne is not the pinnacle of the series. It is the pinnacle of RPGs, period.

As for Phantom Brave, I actually got through that game pretty easily. It wasn't long, nor was it short - it was just right.

Granted, I did do some cheesing. Something along the lines of some stage where an enemy levels up every turn, and you just give one of your characters a skill that makes them blow up when they spawn. Have Marona throw an object next to the enemy that is at a ludicrously high level, they explode, and you get a shit ton of experience.

Legit? No. Fun? Yes. Honestly, if a Nippon Ichi game doesn't have such a 'sploit, I can't get into it. Same with Disgaea 2 - it has the always leveling up Nekomata trick. I don't like grinding, so I just do that.

[Gamerforlife]

My quick research of the Shin Megami Tensei series has brought me to the conclusion that, Nocturne, is one of the pinnacles in the series. Can anybody provide me with some personal insights toward it?

Nocturne is not the pinnacle of the series. It is the pinnacle of RPGs, period.

More like pinnacle of cheese. I got tired of Nocturne after a while. It's stylish, has a cool soundtrack, interesting story, a nice dose of Japanese occultism(like all Megaten games I guess) and a pokemon like addictive quality with the monster collecting. However, the game is cheap as f***. I'm no stranger to playing tough games, but I lost patience with this one and never finished it. It wasn't so much that I couldn't finish it, I just didn't want to.

A battle can go completely against you just do to your luck. If an enemy party gets initiative, you may be looking at a TON of attacks before your party gets a shot, assuming they even survive. By the same token, if one of your characters RANDOMLY misses an attack, you're looking at a potential buttload of pain. Nocturne's combat revolves around chaining attacks, never giving the oppossing party a chance. Unfortunately, a little bad luck is all it takes for the enemy to get an advantage on you. There are other cheap elements too like traps in some dungeons and other annoying crap.

I also hated the levelling system. It is EXTREMELY limited. You get like one point to spend on your stats most of the time and after awhile, the game FORCES you to permanently discard certain techniques that you have whether you like it or not. The game is just not fun at all. I was playing through for the story and just the cool overall style of the game, but the gameplay was crap and if the gameplay is crap, the whole game is crap in my eyes.