How does this keep happening?

[MrPopo]

Ok, let's address the points in this thread in order, to ensure I get my thoughts out right.

1. Moz, you give way too much credit to parents these days. While I'm sure most of them are doing a good job, the ones who get into these news stories are idiots. Just think about it. To qualify as a parent all you need as a functioning pair of genetalia. That's damn scary. If you want to raise foster kids your house gets inspected every year to ensure that it's a decent place (by the standards of the agency, which are admittedly low). As soon as the only kids in your house are legally yours the only time you have to worry is if you have a neighbor who reports gross abuse. And the media doesn't help things, because you rarely see the parents getting blamed by the media. There is always some kind of external target. It makes sense why they want the scapegoat, because it's easy for all the parents in America to rally behind blaming a video game or the internet than for them to point the blame at the parents, because that means they might also become the ones at fault.

2. I have seen that the relative anonymity of the internet is a really scary thing. I've seen the same thing happen to my sister, who just started college this year. She met this guy several states away on Facebook and a few months later he was talking with her about coming out to meet her. Both me and my mom were vehemently against the idea, as we both knew that it was nothing more than him trying to get sex at best, and a whole lot of other horrible things on the worse end. And it's not like my sister didn't get a good upbringing about caution around strangers. What I've found is that these virtual-only interactions do not register in people's minds as real. So they find it easy to give intial trust. Once they start conversing more you end up creating this fantasy person in your mind who's your buddy, and you'd have no problems hanging out with your buddy in real life. The only people I've met in real life that I originally met online I had known for two years or more, which I think is a good enough criterea that they aren't a serial rapist out to get me. That's just too long of a timeline.

3. A related point to point 1. Parents who are as uninvolved in the lives of their kids as these parents seem to be will raise fucked up kids. Plain and simple. In this case I'd guess general neglect is the form of abuse, which has an effect on the daughter. And the one thing that seems to be true about all girls who were raised in an abusive environment is that they become attracted to criminally older men. They don't see anything wrong with it, after all, "he loves me!" It's more profound with sexual abuse victims, but all abuse can trigger it.

4. The predator guys are interesting. They also were raised in abusive environments but because guys are different from girls, while girls generally either shut down sexually or become hypersexual, guys will become abusers themselves and perpetuate the cycle. I can't necessarily speak to what's going on inside their head but I do know they aren't thinking of the consequences. They see the fact that they can land this 15 year old and go with it.

5. The age of consent in California is 18. I haven't looked deeply into the penal code to see what provisions they have for the wiggle room that they usually have in these laws, like it being ok for the 18 year old to be with his 17 year old girlfriend, but she was definately a minor when it comes to this guy. And even beyond that, humans aren't really that capable of handling the enormity of the feelings brought up during sex until around 17 anyway. That's the main reason for the age of consent laws. While I agree with someone else who mentioned that the guy isn't a pedophile, he is a criminal, an abuser, an exploiter, and a guy with very poor impulse control.

Really, the biggest problem is that we let anyone have kids without any qualification beyond figuring out that the penis goes in the vagina. Thus we have a lot of people who aren't capable raising kids. These kids get screwed up and act out, which leads to more kids being born to people who can't handle it, and the cycle perpetuates.

[Reverend]

The sheer stupidity of most people astounds and angers me.

[ott0bot]

great post mr. popo!

[Hatta]

I haven't looked deeply into the penal code to see what provisions they have for the wiggle room that they usually have in these laws, like it being ok for the 18 year old to be with his 17 year old girlfriend, but she was definately a minor when it comes to this guy.

To me, those exceptions seem fundamentally unreasonable. Logically, if a 17 year old is capable of consenting to sex with an 18 year old, they should be able to consent to sex with an 80 year old (not that they would). It's the same brain, same cognitive abilities, so they should be treated the same. Further, this seems to violate the principle of equal protection under the law.

And even beyond that, humans aren't really that capable of handling the enormity of the feelings brought up during sex until around 17 anyway.

I'd argue that the majority of humans aren't ever really that capable of handling the enormity of the feelings brought up by sex.

While I agree with someone else who mentioned that the guy isn't a pedophile, he is a criminal, an abuser, an exploiter, and a guy with very poor impulse control.

I don't judge him so harshly. I know when I was 15, I would have loved for this to happen to me. So I don't see how I can condemn this. I don't buy that this is different because it's a girl, either. Chicks love sex too you know.

[RadarScope1]

Oh gawd, the guy's from Missouri. *shakes head*

Good posts, Moz and Mr. Popo. Agree that it's scary there is no real bar to becoming a parent. No one has to take a test to be one. They just to do the deed.

[slag]

I haven't looked deeply into the penal code to see what provisions they have for the wiggle room that they usually have in these laws, like it being ok for the 18 year old to be with his 17 year old girlfriend, but she was definately a minor when it comes to this guy.

To me, those exceptions seem fundamentally unreasonable. Logically, if a 17 year old is capable of consenting to sex with an 18 year old, they should be able to consent to sex with an 80 year old (not that they would). It's the same brain, same cognitive abilities, so they should be treated the same. Further, this seems to violate the principle of equal protection under the law.

Those exceptions are there for a reason. If your dating someone in high school, then turn 18 before your GF/BF does, that shouldn't stop you from dating them or doing things that people do on dates. I should know, I was 18 before 90% of my class, so if it was illegal to date someone who was 17 it would have cut down on the # of options.

Also, look at it like a RPG. A late 20 something or anybody older will probably have more exp then a 18 yr old or anybody younger. People with higher levels normally over power people at lower level with ease. It isn't all about sex, its also about protecting a protected class from people who can mess with them in possibly horrible ways and leave them screwed up for the rest of their lives.

[MrPopo]

To me, those exceptions seem fundamentally unreasonable. Logically, if a 17 year old is capable of consenting to sex with an 18 year old, they should be able to consent to sex with an 80 year old (not that they would). It's the same brain, same cognitive abilities, so they should be treated the same. Further, this seems to violate the principle of equal protection under the law.

When it comes to the law, the hard boundaries do seem rediculous. Are you really a different person when you're 20 years and 364 days old than when you're 21 years old? Of course not. It's just a series of rough guidelines designed to protect children from being exploited and hurting themselves. And to add to that, an 18 year old is a very different person developmentally than an 80 year old. If you look at the motives and the drives behind the two you will see very different results.

I'd argue that the majority of humans aren't ever really that capable of handling the enormity of the feelings brought up by sex.

Touche.

I don't judge him so harshly. I know when I was 15, I would have loved for this to happen to me. So I don't see how I can condemn this. I don't buy that this is different because it's a girl, either. Chicks love sex too you know.

I don't think it's different because it's a girl. I do acknoweldge that our society has a huge double standard when it comes to the perception of an older person sleeping with a teen when it's an older woman sleeping with a teenage boy vs. the other way around. We all laughed at the South Park episode where Ike slept with his teacher. Niccceee. But realistically it's just as harmful. You just don't see it reported nearly as often when it's a boy with a female adult (I can't speak towards relative number of occurances).

Answer me this. When you were 15 you would have loved for it to happen to you. Now that you're older do you still think it's ok? I suspect not, which is one of the reasons why young teens are not ready for sex and need to be protected from exploitative people like this. When I was in high school I had this really hot female teacher that I would have loved to have sex with (amusingly I didn't discover Van Halen until college). Now that I'm older I see just how horrible the thought of that act occuring is.

And to be fair, yes, chicks love sex to, but they experience it in a very different way from males. That whole biology is different between men and women. I can be just as good or even better for women than for a man but it doesn't activate in the same way. The easiest example is that you can take any guy into a sterile white room and ask him to beat off into a cup and he can do it in 10 minutes (and that's if his hand is cramped). Very few women would be able to perform a similar task. But now I'm digressing.

[SpaceBooger]

Mozgus & Mr. Popo,

As a middle school teacher I see situations similar, not the predator but online interaction and behavior, almost every day.
I used to blame the rise in sexual activity with middle school students with technology - especially since picture texting became popular. It got so bad that in our school, and most others in the area, inappropriate picture texts are considered and will be prosecuted as child porn. Now when I was younger their age in the 80's we smuggled our dads playboys we never saw pictures of chicks we really knew.
But the more I thought about it I don't blame technology, I blame parents.

Instead of facebook, myspace, and chat rooms most of today's parents had to used phones with a cord that connected to the wall near where a family member may be and were probably less likely to talk and act as todays youth does.

Mozgus you pointed out that parents should learn how to use technology and you are right. Most parents know computers, but they know computers as they were and are when they use them. My dad used autocad everyday and was computer savy, but when we first got the internet and I started using modern programs he was lost. My dad didn't use the computer the way I did, so he didn't know what it was capable of but he had no clue what I was capable of on the computer.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that parents because of the vast and unlimited nature of the internet don't see, or even comprehend, what can go on because they only base it on their own personal experiences. Not only can anyone can procreate, but anyone can easily open pandoras box without knowing what is possible on the internet.

It's all about education. There is no way to teach humans that sex is bad or not good because we all know that it can be quite good, the only thing is to teach the difference between right and wrong.

[marurun]

Well, the legal standard is if you're a minor and, depending on the state, not within 1-4 years of age it's illegal, period. Whatever anyone thinks about right or wrong the law supersedes.

Also, according to a recent study noted on either Ars Technica or Slashdot, don't remember which, on-line predation is actually not incredibly common. It's more common for on-line peer bullying to be a problem.

[Jrecee]

I was at a restaurant last night and there was a guy there who couldn't have been under 50 with a girl who couldn't have been more than 22. I figured it's his daughter visiting from college or something. . . until he had his hand all the way up her leg and started kissing her neck. Dear god I was about to puke.

Not that that has much of anything to do with the initial topic, I just wanted to release it from my mind. . . aaaaaaaaaaguuuuuuughh