PC build thread
Re: PC build thread
I think most people go with on board sound. Sound processing doesn't really take the resources that video processing does, so the benefits of a separate sound card usually aren't worth the money for the average person building a machine.
Blizzard Entertainment Software Developer - All comments and views are my own and not representative of the company.
Re: PC build thread
It makes me laugh though. I know that the quality has gotten a little better from motherboards 10+ years ago, but I like how people always put so much attention into video quality but then ignore audio quality completely.
The extreme example of this is when a snob buys a new TV. You know the type of person I'm talking about. You'll be over their house and they'll show it off to you. They like to tell you how expensive it was, but it was "a good price". They'll rattle off the resolution, the refresh rate, the contrast ratio, display color. They have it all memorized. I like to wait until they get to the end of the specs and they ask "So what do ya think? Looks pretty good, huh?" That's when I say, "Yeah, but it sounds like shit!" And half the time you have to add, "And turn the brightness down, you dummy!"
I guess the PC equivalent to this is when someone has a new and expensive video card and they're playing the latest games on the highest settings... but with on board sound and a crappy 2.1 desktop speaker set. But that doesn't really compare, because even that usually sounds a lot better than the horrible speakers all these new TV have.
The extreme example of this is when a snob buys a new TV. You know the type of person I'm talking about. You'll be over their house and they'll show it off to you. They like to tell you how expensive it was, but it was "a good price". They'll rattle off the resolution, the refresh rate, the contrast ratio, display color. They have it all memorized. I like to wait until they get to the end of the specs and they ask "So what do ya think? Looks pretty good, huh?" That's when I say, "Yeah, but it sounds like shit!" And half the time you have to add, "And turn the brightness down, you dummy!"
I guess the PC equivalent to this is when someone has a new and expensive video card and they're playing the latest games on the highest settings... but with on board sound and a crappy 2.1 desktop speaker set. But that doesn't really compare, because even that usually sounds a lot better than the horrible speakers all these new TV have.
Re: PC build thread
Once the AC98 codec on most motherboards could provide perfunctory digital audio playback, the Aureal Vortex was the first card to really push high-end gaming audio. By all accounts it was awesome, but then Creative bought it and killed it and released the still nice, but less nice and bug-plagued SoundBlaster Live. Once they largely abandoned that, there hasn't been a consensus about external audio. I mean, sound processing in a game can eat up to 5% of the CPU time (of a single core, more in games that use really complex audio setups), so a standardized hardware approach could help. But as crazy as PC gamers are, I don't know anyone who has a 5.1 or better setup that needs careful coordination. Most gamers are playing in stereo.
That and we're very visual creatures. Not as driven by our ears, though. It's much easier to see improvement than hear it. Also, most of the nutters insisting 24-bit audio is the bees knees are easily defeated by SCIENCE (unless you are mastering, where the extra headroom can be useful)! So if 16-bit, 44khz is good enough for human (non-supernatural) ears and stereo is what most folks are using, there isn't any need for most advanced audio processing. Not, at least, until there's finally an open standard for positional audio that maps from stereo up to 9.1 and includes standards for effects processing as well.
That and we're very visual creatures. Not as driven by our ears, though. It's much easier to see improvement than hear it. Also, most of the nutters insisting 24-bit audio is the bees knees are easily defeated by SCIENCE (unless you are mastering, where the extra headroom can be useful)! So if 16-bit, 44khz is good enough for human (non-supernatural) ears and stereo is what most folks are using, there isn't any need for most advanced audio processing. Not, at least, until there's finally an open standard for positional audio that maps from stereo up to 9.1 and includes standards for effects processing as well.
Re: PC build thread
Bleh. If you ask me, it's more about the DAC and the quality of the amp/speakers/headphones.
But yeah, I've always cared more about sound than video. If there was a slider to adjust between audio and video quality, I'd adjust mine more toward the audio side. I'm always complaining about the way people's TVs sound, but they tell me they sound just fine. My brother's TV resonates like the body of an acoustic guitar. My parents' TV is such a muffled mess. The clarity is so bad, so you naturally turn it up louder because you can't hear dialog good enough but then it's just blaring and undefined.
I miss when TVs sounded decent and didn't require a separate sound system.
But yeah, I've always cared more about sound than video. If there was a slider to adjust between audio and video quality, I'd adjust mine more toward the audio side. I'm always complaining about the way people's TVs sound, but they tell me they sound just fine. My brother's TV resonates like the body of an acoustic guitar. My parents' TV is such a muffled mess. The clarity is so bad, so you naturally turn it up louder because you can't hear dialog good enough but then it's just blaring and undefined.
I miss when TVs sounded decent and didn't require a separate sound system.
Re: PC build thread
Wait, there was such a time? I do not recall this time.Ziggy587 wrote:I miss when TVs sounded decent and didn't require a separate sound system.
Re: PC build thread
LOL, you must have missed the thread. I'm not a full fledged audiophile. I'm a budgetphile.
But in all seriousness, TVs use to sound MUCH better than most TVs today (note: I said decent, not amazing). Maybe due to the fact that they weren't paper thin? Maybe due to the fact that manufactures decided to really skimp on the audio all of a sudden? I don't know. What I do know is that the speakers on my CRT are tolerable. As in, I don't cringe when I hear them. However, my current HDTV, and most other HDTVs I've heard, sound like complete and utter garbage. I can't even bare to put up with how bad they sound, and I'm not an audiophile.
Around the time they first started coming down in price, and not a lot of people had them, I bought my first HDTV. It was a 32" 720p and it was a little over $1000. So whatever year that was. The TV sounded AWESOME. Actually, abnormally good. Hey, Bose can make a docking station that sounds great and is no thicker than an LCD TV. There's no reason HDTVs have to sound like shit. I think they just slowly got there because no one seems to care. Manufactures found out they can save some money, so they went with it.
You want an awesome HDTV, go back in time and get a Dell W3207C. It's a retro gamer's wet dream. The sound quality is amazing, and looks great. It has S-Video inputs. It will accept PAL 50Hz signals. You can pivot the TV to change the viewing angle with ease. The speakers are on the left and right of the screen, which offer a better stereo effect (not fucking facing down!). And some how, retro consoles look amazing on it. To be honest, I never had a better experience playing NES and SNES on a TV. The upscaling quality is superb. I know, right? Dell made TVs? It was a sad, sad day when I had to replace it.
But when I went to the store to pick up my new HDTV, I wasn't planning on leaving without a new AVR to go along with it. It was both or neither. Anyway, sorry to derail the thread. /rant
But in all seriousness, TVs use to sound MUCH better than most TVs today (note: I said decent, not amazing). Maybe due to the fact that they weren't paper thin? Maybe due to the fact that manufactures decided to really skimp on the audio all of a sudden? I don't know. What I do know is that the speakers on my CRT are tolerable. As in, I don't cringe when I hear them. However, my current HDTV, and most other HDTVs I've heard, sound like complete and utter garbage. I can't even bare to put up with how bad they sound, and I'm not an audiophile.
Around the time they first started coming down in price, and not a lot of people had them, I bought my first HDTV. It was a 32" 720p and it was a little over $1000. So whatever year that was. The TV sounded AWESOME. Actually, abnormally good. Hey, Bose can make a docking station that sounds great and is no thicker than an LCD TV. There's no reason HDTVs have to sound like shit. I think they just slowly got there because no one seems to care. Manufactures found out they can save some money, so they went with it.
You want an awesome HDTV, go back in time and get a Dell W3207C. It's a retro gamer's wet dream. The sound quality is amazing, and looks great. It has S-Video inputs. It will accept PAL 50Hz signals. You can pivot the TV to change the viewing angle with ease. The speakers are on the left and right of the screen, which offer a better stereo effect (not fucking facing down!). And some how, retro consoles look amazing on it. To be honest, I never had a better experience playing NES and SNES on a TV. The upscaling quality is superb. I know, right? Dell made TVs? It was a sad, sad day when I had to replace it.
But when I went to the store to pick up my new HDTV, I wasn't planning on leaving without a new AVR to go along with it. It was both or neither. Anyway, sorry to derail the thread. /rant
Re: PC build thread
I went with a Sound Blaster Z. I'm very happy with it; Especially when compared to my previous cards that always seemed to have issues with 5.1 audio unless I went with analog to my receiver.
The thing that sets it apart from all the others I've had is it has a chip on it that does real-time digital optical 5.1 encoding. Because my audio receiver doesn't have HDMI input, only optical and coax, my previous cards were causing too many problems with all the different codecs surround sound can be encoded in.
If you're sending your audio through HDMI into your receiver none of that matters as the HDMI cable has full bandwidth and will always just work for any surround audio with a perfect uncompressed/encoded digital signal. Only Coaxial and Optical SPDIF require compressed/encoded audio.
The thing that sets it apart from all the others I've had is it has a chip on it that does real-time digital optical 5.1 encoding. Because my audio receiver doesn't have HDMI input, only optical and coax, my previous cards were causing too many problems with all the different codecs surround sound can be encoded in.
If you're sending your audio through HDMI into your receiver none of that matters as the HDMI cable has full bandwidth and will always just work for any surround audio with a perfect uncompressed/encoded digital signal. Only Coaxial and Optical SPDIF require compressed/encoded audio.
Re: PC build thread
The last time a PC I owned had a sound card? 1998 
The new laptop and desktop I have feature DTS sound, like in the movies. I think it's best to find decent speakers; I miss the Altec Lansing-s on my previous HP laptops, and I managed to hang onto the really nice JBL speakers I had from a desktop in 2004. They're plugged into the new desktop now. That's where I play all the modern GOG stuff.
The new laptop and desktop I have feature DTS sound, like in the movies. I think it's best to find decent speakers; I miss the Altec Lansing-s on my previous HP laptops, and I managed to hang onto the really nice JBL speakers I had from a desktop in 2004. They're plugged into the new desktop now. That's where I play all the modern GOG stuff.
Xeogred wrote:The obvious answer is that it's time for the Dreamcast 2.
Re: PC build thread
Hell, a lot of video cards now include HDMI audio out. At least, the ones from AMD do. Which is weird, but sure, whatever.
Re: PC build thread
My Nvidia card does digital audio over the HDMI connection as well, which makes my life easier since I was already plugging my PC into the TV.marurun wrote:Hell, a lot of video cards now include HDMI audio out. At least, the ones from AMD do. Which is weird, but sure, whatever.
Blizzard Entertainment Software Developer - All comments and views are my own and not representative of the company.