Xbox One

Gaming on the Playstation and Xbox Platforms
Niode
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Re: Xbox One

Post by Niode »

RCBH928 wrote: Usually the best consoles(overall) wins the generation, even if its weaker hardware wise. Just compare PS1 to Saturn and N64.
What? The PSX was the biggest seller of that generation, in many peoples minds, and objectively looking at what Sony achieved with the console and how the PSX was the gateway for gaming to be more culturally accepted as a pastime for adults and not a kiddies toy. The problem with the fifth generation was that each console had strengths and weaknesses. The PS1 struggled with 2D and the 3D was severely hindered by a lack of floating point processor and z-buffer. It simply did not have a 3D gpu. It used geometry transformations to approximate 3D space with a fairly clunky amount of accuracy. The N64 fixed that as it had a true 3D processor and could do floating point calculations at the drop of a hat. It's draw back was a forced anti-aliasing mode. In Nintendo's infinite wisdom they thought... wait we're making a real 3D console for the first time that does real 3D graphics and is designed for that specific use, what happens when lines aren't perpendicular to the edges of the screen? They get jaggy! We better fix that. And forced an anti-aliasing step in the renderer, for ALL MODES. So you get 2D games that look like utter shit. Take a look at Yoshi's Story, it looks like arse because it has that layer of vaseline smeared all over it's 2D sprites. So N64 Great for 3D, utter shite for 2D, hindered by a cartridge system that was too outdated to keep up with Sony's console despite being arguably better on paper. The Saturn was an amazing 2D machine and arguably more powerful. The problem Sega had was getting third party devs to maximise the performance on the machine. Also the Saturn couldn't do alpha transparencies except on layers something which the PSX and N64 could do without blinking an eye. So in order to do hardware accelerated alpha on textures you had to borrow tricks from the SNES in order to achieve the same effect. It flat out could not render alpha textures on polygons. At all. It would have to be achieved in software. Games like Burning Rangers AFAIK achieved this but I don't have any examples to hand.
RCBH928 wrote: Also PS2 against oXbox and NGC. And I "feel" like the PS3 was the better console overall last gen and not the WIi even if the WIi won. I think this is the first time this happened.
You go and contradict yourself here. The console that was objectively the winner in terms of console sales was the Wii, it sold millions of units more than the competition and it was the weakest hardware wise. The PS3 was arguably the more powerful system on paper, however in terms of producing games the 360 was technically better suited to the task due to having a more versatile GPU but a less versatile CPU with conventional architecture.

I kinda understand where you're coming from but not sure what argument you are trying to make here. The PS3 certainly had an almost golden era in the last 2-3 years where it focused on pleasing gamers by being overly generous, releasing stellar paradigm shifting games like The Last Of Us and a welcoming approach to indies. They kinda made up for all the bullshit that occurred during their dark years (2009-10 where they suffered the major hack and complete failing of the security in not just the PS3 but their PSN network as well). They realised they had fucked up and worked over time to restore good faith. I still bear a grudge for them removing my OtherOS support but forgot about it as soon as the Fail0verflow exploit came around and I could play around with my PS3 again with untethered access. As far as unique experiences I didn't have before the Wii was waaaay out in front of pushing the envelope and I thank Nintendo for that. It was a well deserved win for Nintendo and pushed the value of experience and art direction over graphical fidelity. Something which the Wii U is continuing with much to the chagrin of bro-gamers who want "maor polygons!11!!!".
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isiolia
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Re: Xbox One

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Niode wrote: You go and contradict yourself here. The console that was objectively the winner in terms of console sales was the Wii, it sold millions of units more than the competition and it was the weakest hardware wise. The PS3 was arguably the more powerful system on paper, however in terms of producing games the 360 was technically better suited to the task due to having a more versatile GPU but a less versatile CPU with conventional architecture.
Maybe it'd be better said that Sony wound up winning as a brand, evidenced by 8th generation hardware sales so far. Right now, there are few reasons to own a PS4, outside of having the best console versions of basically anything on it (I don't doubt this will change in 2015). However, that's the machine people have been buying, outside of major sales.

Not that I'd entirely discount marketing and presentation for the new machines too, but I think a good deal of that is based on reputation coming out of the 7th gen.
Niode
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Re: Xbox One

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isiolia wrote:
Niode wrote: You go and contradict yourself here. The console that was objectively the winner in terms of console sales was the Wii, it sold millions of units more than the competition and it was the weakest hardware wise. The PS3 was arguably the more powerful system on paper, however in terms of producing games the 360 was technically better suited to the task due to having a more versatile GPU but a less versatile CPU with conventional architecture.
Maybe it'd be better said that Sony wound up winning as a brand, evidenced by 8th generation hardware sales so far. Right now, there are few reasons to own a PS4, outside of having the best console versions of basically anything on it (I don't doubt this will change in 2015). However, that's the machine people have been buying, outside of major sales.

Not that I'd entirely discount marketing and presentation for the new machines too, but I think a good deal of that is based on reputation coming out of the 7th gen.

On strength of brands alone the Nintendo is still the house hold name with the older generation still calling any console a 'nintendo'. Sony and Microsoft have a ways to go before they achieve that kind of brand recognition. I would like to see a survey of the general public on their attitudes to gaming brands. I would argue a lot more people have heard of Sony and Microsoft thanks to their main pursuits (consumer electronics and operating systems respectively) and don't instantly make the cognitive leap to their entertainment divisions as you or I would. The strength of Nintendo is that everyone associates the brand with Games. They're a games company through and through. They started as a toys company and technically they still create toys. It's just that these toys are extremely complex toys made from silicon and plastic rather than the trading cards they used to make. As far as a core brand identity goes Nintendo by far has the strongest out of the 'big three'.
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alienjesus
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Re: Xbox One

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Niode wrote: On strength of brands alone the Nintendo is still the house hold name with the older generation still calling any console a 'nintendo'. Sony and Microsoft have a ways to go before they achieve that kind of brand recognition. I would like to see a survey of the general public on their attitudes to gaming brands. I would argue a lot more people have heard of Sony and Microsoft thanks to their main pursuits (consumer electronics and operating systems respectively) and don't instantly make the cognitive leap to their entertainment divisions as you or I would. The strength of Nintendo is that everyone associates the brand with Games. They're a games company through and through. They started as a toys company and technically they still create toys. It's just that these toys are extremely complex toys made from silicon and plastic rather than the trading cards they used to make. As far as a core brand identity goes Nintendo by far has the strongest out of the 'big three'.
This is partly true, but it assumes that people are equating the Sony or Microsoft brands with Nintendo, when really they are equating the 'Playstation' and 'XBox' brands instead. And I can tell you for a fact my mum calls all games consoles 'Xbox' even though I grew up on Nintendo and Sega consoles and have never owned an XBox whilst living with her.
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isiolia
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Re: Xbox One

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Playstation is a very strong brand, and Xbox is well recognized as well.

I don't disagree that Nintendo is a very focused brand. However, that's not really the way in which I was thinking of it.

Quite a lot more people would more readily associate Sony with home consoles than Nintendo as far, far more people have had a Playstation of some kind under their TV. Sony absolutely dominated 5-6th gen. The PS1 and PS2 basically more than doubled the combined numbers of their respective competition.

7th gen was the anomaly, and even then they've (so far) had a fairly respectable tie for 2nd.

My point is more that the various issues that caused the PS3 not continue dominating as the previous two Sony consoles did seem to have been addressed. Like you said, Sony has really done a great job in the past few years with the PS3.

Nintendo sold a lot of Wiis, but their name alone isn't moving many Wii Us. MS hugely improved their position in the market with the 360, but is having to fiercely compete now.

Sony is more on track to see the kind of market dominance that the PS1 and 2 had. They've basically sold as many PS4s as Xbox Ones and Wii Us have sold combined.
I just think that's a result of those last few solid years of PS3 and Playstation brand improvement. Like I said, there's little currently on the shelf to warrant that, so it seems more like a win for Sony in terms of repairing their reputation.
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Re: Xbox One

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Yes sadly the PS4 is trading pretty much off the back of the goodwill Sony acquired in the last few years of the PS3. Still it's not a very exciting proposition and you could argue that Sony are resting on their laurels a little too much.

Also regarding console sales in total Sony have sold >431.79 million units in total across all models. Nintendo have sold >763.10 million units across all models. So I'd say the chances of somebody having a Nintendo console is more likely on raw numbers alone.
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isiolia
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Re: Xbox One

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Niode wrote: Also regarding console sales in total Sony have sold >431.79 million units in total across all models. Nintendo have sold >763.10 million units across all models. So I'd say the chances of somebody having a Nintendo console is more likely on raw numbers alone.
Including handhelds, sure. Home consoles, as I stipulated, favor Sony, particularly if you don't include generations prior to their entry into the market. Personally, I think it's a fair cutoff, considering that the Playstation brand has been around 20 years now. Within the scope of the discussion of brand recognition and such, that's more than enough time.

There's no real question that Nintendo has owned the portable market, if you aren't factoring in iOS/Android.

While I don't disagree that Sony is, perhaps, resting on their laurels right now, it may also be that projects slipped into 2015 that they intended to have out by now. As mentioned, the Order and Bloodborne seem like the kind of exclusives needed, and they're currently listed as February and March releases, respectively.
Would still be nice to see them competing as hard as MS seems to be, but from a business perspective, I guess they don't see the need to.

Does feel like they're just coasting, regardless of actual reasons, and I hope that does change soon.
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RCBH928
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Re: Xbox One

Post by RCBH928 »

Here, people used to call videogames "Atari" and then they started calling them "Playstation". Not sure if there was a time in between where they called it Nintendo.

@Niode

I am confused about our discussion, because it seems like you and I are saying the same thing?

The only difference is that you believe the Wii had a better library by saying:
Niode wrote: "
As far as unique experiences I didn't have before the Wii was waaaay out in front of pushing the envelope and I thank Nintendo for that. It was a well deserved win for Nintendo and pushed the value of experience and art direction over graphical fidelity. Something which the Wii U is continuing with much to the chagrin of bro-gamers who want "maor polygons!11!!!".y...
I believe the ps3 had a better game library over the Wii. Usually the better library wins , even if its on a weaker console, like ps2 as I said before.



@dsheinem

From your posts I understand that you are not a big fan of Wii and Wii U, and believe Wii U is doomed. So do I...
Niode
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Re: Xbox One

Post by Niode »

RCBH928 wrote:
I believe the ps3 had a better game library over the Wii. Usually the better library wins , even if its on a weaker console, like ps2 as I said before.
In your opinion. The PS3 had a solid library but as far as exclusives goes I'd say the Wii had the better experiences. Super Mario Galaxy, Skyward Sword, Madworld, Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, The Last Story, Trauma Team, Red Steel 2, Sin & Punishment, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Donkey Kong Country, Super Paper Mario, Boom Blox, Endless Ocean, Muramasa, Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes, Little King's Story, Xenoblade. . . I could go on. The PS3 had some very good original games but on the whole not a lot of fresh ideas outside of maybe Heavy Rain, Demon's Souls, Ni No Kuni, Little Big Planet, Journey, The Last Of Us and maybe Uncharted. Correct me if I'm wrong I'm constantly looking for new experiences for my PS3 but a lot of it was highly polished riffs on familiar themes or sequels to earlier titles. If you wanted new experiences, the Wii was the place to be last generation.
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RCBH928
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Re: Xbox One

Post by RCBH928 »

Well, its clearly a difference in taste between you and me but, How about stuff like:

Flower, SuperStar Dust, Catherine, Buzz, L.A. Noire, Infamous, Puppeteer, Dragon's Crown,
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