WELL THIS IS INTERESTING.. Retron 5

[TSTR]

By the way for the GPL trolls pissed off about the R5, the tech went ahead overnight and shoved the GPL license stuff and the full source code to the R5 and its emulation cores up for download. You can find the link on the bottom of the download page for 2.0 update.

Damn, just went full open source? This machine just keeps getting cooler.

[ExedExes]

The non-beta 2.0 release is now official, get here.

Fast cart loading is disabled? I think until that's all worked out I'll keep my 2.0b6 then.

[samsonlonghair]

Too soon? Maybe.

Personally, I'm not terribly concerned with GPL copyright violations. It seems a little disingenuous for someone to develop an emulator, and then complain about copyright violations.

I would like to say that this shows conclusively that emulation is done within android, not on the hardware level. There was some disagreement on this point earlier.

This isn't exactly news, but it was news to me:
RetroRGB has a teardown of the Retron 5. This includes a few surprises. There's a space on this board for an extra cartridge slot.
http://www.retrorgb.com/teardown.html

Interesting enough I got this tasty tidbit of info I wasn't aware of. While the MENU on the system uses Android, the emulators themselves tap the hardware directly and android is switched off. This is why the system itself has no input/delay lag versus something like Ouya and other Android emulators because it has to deal with the lag Android forces upon it.

I think Tanooki suggested that Android is just used for the front end, not the emulation. I think this teardown indicates otherwise based on the photos. The motherboard (ironically the smallest board here) has the Rockchip RK3066 at its heart. Fuzhou designed this ARM9 cpu specifically for android. The big board with the cartridge ports just has a XILINX Spartan field programmable gate array, not a proper CPU of its own. As far as I can see, there is no NOAC or similar hardware. Based on these pictures, I must speculate that the emulation is all done in android not on the hardware level.

I wasn't implying anything, I was told that by the head tech who runs the facebook account and shadow reads this board among a few others for suggestions and improvements just before posting it more or less.

I'm not calling you a liar, Tanooki. I just think that someone has fed you misinformation. If there really is a head tech shadow reading this board, let him reveal himself now. There's no point in arguing by proxy. For what it's worth, I have no hatred for you, Hyperkin, or the Retron5. I just want to get a few straight answers on emulation methods.

[Forlorn Drifter]

I keep hearing rumors the extra board space was to be for N64, though I don't know how true that is.

I keep waiting hoping they might announce a console with N64 support, but I'm not sure if its worth the wait.

[raygank]

Should be possible to add on N64 support via a USB add on with a cartridge connector and game pad ports, though I sort of doubt that's the direction Hyperkin will go. And it seems too soon for a Retron 6.
Also, I've never had a good experience with N64 emulation on Android. It doesn't run well on any but high end devices, and the rockchip CPU in the Retron is definitely not high end.
I would prefer a completely separate clone N64 console with a faster CPU and a smaller footprint to compliment rather than replace the Retron 5. Hell maybe give it a CD drive and let it play PSX games too. (Saturn would be too much to hope for, it doesn't emulate well on Android)

[Tanooki]

Sam I asked, he won't register to this other 3 boards he lurks due to potential conflict. I can't say more on the whole emulation android vs hardware thing. Maybe misled, don't know. I just know that this GPL thing has all the emulator plugins open source now, a few other elements too, there are still a few things under lock and key they developed entirely.

I'm not concerned about GPL violations either same reasons as you about it, it's all just puffing chests about doing something technically maybe legal but very gray area in the first place. The emulators involved are using old examples from the 90s forward to directly or indirectly base their work upon at this point and a lot of those early emulators used stolen Nintendo tech docs from warioworld.com which I'm very well aware of as I was in the warez aspect of it back then and had the docs too over a decade ago. I know for a fact the VBA author, the original, used stolen docs from that site for both GBA and GBC information which in days transformed it from a stuck program with limited demos to running commercial games as I was an online buddy of his way back then when it went down. I also had ties with snes96 w/sound then 9x for a time and a few other projects, they do use borrowed information. So it's all ultimately hypocrisy so I have little respect for the bitching and whining how they're being ripped off by hyperkin since they're using stuff stolen from the source knowingly or not.

[raygank]

I think it's easy to look at emulation as a legal grey area and say that giving a damn about the GPL or other open source licenses is hypocrisy, but look at it this way:

Developing an emulator is EXTREMELY hard. There's a reason that brand new emulators don't spring up all the time, and that Hyperkin for example doesn't just develop brand new ones for the Retron. Developing an emulator is a process of iteration that takes thousands of man-hours over many years.

The ONLY way we get good emulators is through open source. Developers burn out, disappear, move on, etc... If they all worked closed-source, or even kept their changes and improvements to existing emulators closed source, then their work and expertise would end with that. Every emulator developer, and this goes doubly for commercial ones like Hyperkin, benefits from the years long chain of contributions of open source developers of these emulators, and it's their duty to share their contributions to that code with the community. GOOD ON HYPERKIN for releasing their source. It's the right thing to do, and it makes me feel much better about supporting them financially with my purchase

People "whining" about open source aren't upset because someone else is using their code. The code doesn't belong to them, even if they wrote it. The code belongs to everyone. They're upset because they love emulation and want to see it succeed and improve, and emulation software can't succeed as a closed source project. It's not hypocrisy about "you pirate roms, he pirated your software... what's the difference?" The continued existance of emulation software requires that it remain open. If you love emulation, you should insist that the code be available.

Didn't mean to rant, I'm not really all that dogmatic about open source, but emulation is one of the few areas that I think it's indispensable, and it makes me sad to see people dismiss the moral obligation that open source development carries with it.

[Purkeynator]

The non-beta 2.0 release is now official, get here.

Fast cart loading is disabled? I think until that's all worked out I'll keep my 2.0b6 then.

Yeah , that's what I am thinking. I quickly grabbed the 2.0b6 download last night and installed it before it dissapears.

[Tanooki]

Ray I agree with you. I just have the unique take on it having been kind of hands in with a few of the projects back in the 90s on the test/tech doc side of things among others I just have less sympathy, but I have some, it's just not coming off as such. I know they take hundreds and thousands of hours to get fine tuned and right, but at the same time I know the ones being whined about the most are legally illegal since they used Nintendo technical documents to create their cores in part or more so to go bitching that Hyperkin ripped them off comes off as a bit laughable and why I have the attitude I do. I just see it as thieves whining about being robbed by another thief. The code didn't belong to them either because they jacked Nintendo to get it up and running and that's why I said whining. I guess I have a unique take because I got into emulation back in 1996 and got hands on with it.

True open source, stuff honestly developed without the shady aspect of it I agree with your entire sentiment about it, GPL protections and the rest. I know parts of VBA and SNES9X used borrowed documentation early on and short of a 100% honest rewrite at some point they're still shady. As far as hyperkin goes, as I was told, the tech was uneasy about it all along and wanted it out there, but he doesn't call the shots, the main office does and they wanted to be all ninja about it. Once it got out and all the uproar started he approached them, showed them the potential fall out, and they relented to have it out there.

[ninjainspandex]

Will opensource mean hopefully soon we will see the ability to load games directly from SD card?