World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

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BoringSupreez
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by BoringSupreez »

RCBH928 wrote:
BoringSupreez wrote:This is an extremely awkward situation for Ukraine. If they officially recognize Russia's actions as what they are (an act of war) and treat it as such, they will be fully invaded and overrun within a month. If they continue to try and keep the situation cool, they'll be slowly eaten away piece by piece.


So why don't USA takes military action against Russia just like they did with Saddam when he invaded Kuwait? Why was the destruction of 2 buildings and death of 3000 civilians was a good enough reason to invade 2 countries in a ten year plan but invading a whole country is not?

The war in Kuwait was about oil politics, and Saddam wanting to be the one selling and controlling the prices. That, of course, would have a direct effect on us. And on 9/11, those were two of our buildings and 3000 of our civilians. We're not obligated to protect someone else's civilians. What makes Ukraine different is that we have a Democrat in office right now, and that what's going on over there doesn't have a direct affect on us.

And the invasions weren't ten year plans, they just dragged out that long.
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SirGawain
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

Post by SirGawain »

Adam wrote:
What if the Mexican Army crossed the border into the USA and then occupied a few Spanish speaking towns, to then ask them if they'd love to join into the Mexican Federation? If Mexico annexed American lands just on the basis of a snap referendum, then you as an American would be pretty pissed, wouldn't you?



Mexico can't do that though. They don't have the power to back up a psycho ass move like that, whereas Russia does.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by SirGawain »

I gotcha. Well America wouldn't do that because we have a President that is obsessed with how he looks in the world and political correctness. Putin doesn't care how he looks in the political spotlight and does whatever he wants, which led to now and apparently trying to re-establish the USSR by force :oops:
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Pulsar_t »

SirGawain wrote:I gotcha. Well America wouldn't do that because we have a President that is obsessed with how he looks in the world and political correctness. Putin doesn't care how he looks in the political spotlight and does whatever he wants, which led to now and apparently trying to re-establish the USSR by force :oops:


I hope that's sarcasm.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Flake »

Pulsar_t wrote:
SirGawain wrote:I gotcha. Well America wouldn't do that because we have a President that is obsessed with how he looks in the world and political correctness. Putin doesn't care how he looks in the political spotlight and does whatever he wants, which led to now and apparently trying to re-establish the USSR by force :oops:


I hope that's sarcasm.


Reality says it's not.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Ivo »

As we are doing comparisons, it reminds me most of what happened with Greece / Cyprus / Turkey. Which makes me think that possibly the occupation can last for a long while. East Cyprus is still "occupied" (although I believe most Greek Cypriots have moved to the West all those years ago), and there are no real signs of that changing I would say.

Although there are important differences of course.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by RCBH928 »

@Ivo
Who occupied east cyprus?

@Adam

I understand what you are saying, but those are Ukrainian citizens are they not? Supposedly some naturalised Mexicans supported Mexican occupation in the US, what would be the legal actions taken against those "Americans" once American gets back the occupied land?

BoringSupreez wrote:
RCBH928 wrote:
BoringSupreez wrote:This is an extremely awkward situation for Ukraine. If they officially recognize Russia's actions as what they are (an act of war) and treat it as such, they will be fully invaded and overrun within a month. If they continue to try and keep the situation cool, they'll be slowly eaten away piece by piece.


So why don't USA takes military action against Russia just like they did with Saddam when he invaded Kuwait? Why was the destruction of 2 buildings and death of 3000 civilians was a good enough reason to invade 2 countries in a ten year plan but invading a whole country is not?

The war in Kuwait was about oil politics, and Saddam wanting to be the one selling and controlling the prices. That, of course, would have a direct effect on us. And on 9/11, those were two of our buildings and 3000 of our civilians. We're not obligated to protect someone else's civilians. What makes Ukraine different is that we have a Democrat in office right now, and that what's going on over there doesn't have a direct affect on us.

And the invasions weren't ten year plans, they just dragged out that long.


Actually I support the policy "Do not take action unless it affects us" , but seeing the USA history they got pretty much in everything so why not now with the Russians? Supposedly Egypt marches into Israel would they say "This does not affect us, so we won't get involved" ? I doubt it...
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Ivo »

RCBH928 wrote:@Ivo
Who occupied east cyprus?


It was a bit of a mess. Greece was a dictatorship at the time and tried to annex Cyprus. The Turkish used the opportunity to invade the east part with the pretext that it was to protect the citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus#197 ... d_division

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus

The end result so far is that the East part of Cyprus is currently a separate country that is only recognized by Turkey.

Crimea makes me think of the situation in Cyprus because as far as I understand it there was trouble with Ukraine, and Russia used that opportunity as a pretext that they invaded to protect the citizens as well (followed by the referendum).
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Pulsar_t »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_and_Moldova

Putin can take Moldova without necessitating a retaliation from NATO.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Ack »

RCBH928 wrote:So why don't USA takes military action against Russia just like they did with Saddam when he invaded Kuwait? Why was the destruction of 2 buildings and death of 3000 civilians was a good enough reason to invade 2 countries in a ten year plan but invading a whole country is not?


Nuclear weapons.

Russia may have a large military, but it has an enormous territory and lacks the infrastructure to move that military around to any particular problem area in a swift manner. If a nation like China or the United States were to invade Russia, there's little the Russian military could do to hold territory, and they would likely cede control of large swathes of land while waiting for favorable conditions and knowing that any taken territory would also likely be too large for an invader to continue to hold. Russia also has other defenses, such as particularly brutal winters and the willingness of Russian citizens under occupation to become partisan forces waging guerrilla campaigns.

But above all else, Russia has the largest nuclear stockpile in the world(about 1000 more than the US, though the US has more nuclear arms active and ready for deployment at any given time), and as of 2000, their military doctrine focuses on using nuclear arms as a deterrent, particularly against nations they perceive to be stronger than the Russian military(meaning US and NATO members). In 2009, Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev openly considered the use of nuclear arms in "local conflicts" such as Chechnya or the Russian invasion of Georgia, though this resulted in a public backlash, and in 2010 Russia released a new military doctrine governing nuclear arms that stated they could only be used in the event of Russia's existence being threatened. This primarily means massive and open warfare of the kind that you are suggesting.

So there you have it. In the event of a US/NATO invasion of Russia, Russia will launch its nukes as per its nuclear doctrine. Such an attack will result in an inevitable nuclear counterattack from the United States, as per its own retaliatory nuclear doctrine(US nuclear doctrine was also expanded in 2001, and while narrowed a bit in 2010, is still openly for use as a deterrent and in retaliation for a nuclear strike from any nuclear armed nation. For the record, current US nuclear doctrine[circa 2010] also reserves to right to launch nuclear counterattacks in the event of biological weapon attacks, even from non-nuclear armed nations). So we don't invade Russia. No one invades Russia for fear of nuclear attack and potential armageddon.
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