Metal Heads Assemble!!

[brunoafh]

I still think church burners are scum. I actually would equate them with child rapists.

Well that's just completely insane to me, I can't even begin to process that line of thought.

You can't separate the art and the artist for some things in my opinion

If you purposely let your personal perception of the artist cloud the value actual art, that's flawed logic. A beautiful painting is a beautiful painting, it's as simple as that.

Similarly, what if you found out your favorite band of all time has been in engaging in [insert thing you don't agree with here] for years? Would you then think it's not okay to enjoy their art anymore? Would you think the art is bad now because you find the creator amoral? This can even be applied to games. Let's say we found out the original creator of Castlevania killed a bunch of people and ate them 20 years ago. Castlevania sucks now? Relating the artist to the art is fine and often an integral part of how we analyze and understand art in any medium. But saying that the art is "bad" because the artist is "bad", does not make any sense.

[BurningDoom]

I still think church burners are scum. I actually would equate them with child rapists.

Well that's just completely insane to me, I can't even begin to process that line of thought.

Really? You can't understand why someone would consider a person who commits a senseless act of violence against a completely non-threatening community of innocent people, scum? And murder is wrong in any society.

[brunoafh]

Really? You can't understand why someone would consider a person who commits a senseless act of violence against a completely non-threatening community of innocent people, scum? And murder is wrong in any society.

I would have to know more about his motivations for doing such things before I could make any kind of educated judgement on him. As such, I don't see Varg as much more than some crazy guy that makes black metal in Norway that should probably be under surveillance. Not in the same ballpark as a child rapist (i.e. a non-threatening priest).

[BurningDoom]

Really? You can't understand why someone would consider a person who commits a senseless act of violence against a completely non-threatening community of innocent people, scum? And murder is wrong in any society.

I would have to know more about his motivations for doing such things before I could make any kind of educated judgement on him. As such, I don't see Varg as much more than some crazy guy that makes black metal in Norway that should probably be under surveillance. Not in the same ballpark as a child rapist (i.e. a non-threatening priest).

Never said child rape was okay, or anything even remotely close to that. Both are pretty messed up.

[Forlorn Drifter]

I really don't see how arson is okay in any way, neither can I see child rape okay in any way. Both are wrong and frowned upon in general.

[Menegrothx]

I've read that the church that Varg burnt was built on pagan holy land. So if the church does not respect other religions, I don't see how it can expect others to respect it. Now I condemn the act for 3 reasons (1. chance of killing some one in the fire 2. destroying cultural/architectural heritage 3. property crime), but I don't see the "sacredness of the church" as a factor in why the act was so wrong, in theory he had a justified reason to be angry at the church. Whether it's good for your sanity to be upset over something that happened a thousand years ago and whether you can fight something that's already become the cultural norm over the years is another thing.

I wonder if any mainstream gangsta rap artists have committed murders? I know that there are quite many underground rappers who've murdered people and that the Biggie Smalls/Tupac feud that ended in both dying in drive by shootings, but any concrete evidence of popular artists taking part in these feuds? Given the past and lyrics of many rappers, it wouldn't be a surprise (though some songs are written tongue in cheek). Compared to the whole gangsta rap scene I think the death count of the Norwegian black metal scene is kinda tame and not enough to demonize the music. 1 suicide, 1 murder in a fight between two somewhat insane guys and 1 hate crime (the stabbing of the gay man).

Really? You can't understand why someone would consider a person who commits a senseless act of violence against a completely non-threatening community of innocent people, scum? And murder is wrong in any society.

The guy who Vikernes killed was planning on torturing and murdering him and tried to attack him, so it wasn't a senseless murder of an innocent victim. Though of course it's hard to know what exactly is the truth when you can't hear the other side of the story, but it seems like people who knew Euronymous back up the claims of Vikernes

[BurningDoom]

You guys keep comparing all these other bad things to it, like it makes it okay. It's all bad. Child rape is bad. Gangster shootings are bad. And burning churches and murder is bad. If you do any of those things, you are a fucked up individual.

And no, it doesn't make an entire genre of music bad. But, I won't support those individual artists and bands that did it. My point in that was that despite my feelings, I don't talk about how much I feel Burzum sucks when they're brought up.

[Menegrothx]

That doesn't mean you can't enjoy a good black metal or a gangsta rap song even if you despise the author. As long as the work itself does not glorify his acts.

[brunoafh]

My point in that was that despite my feelings, I don't talk about how much I feel Burzum sucks when they're brought up.

Except... you do. You make it quite clear you dislike Varg and Burzum every time it is brought up in the thread. But that's your right to do so, that kind of thing goes pretty much hand in hand with music discussion. It doesn't make you an elitist or an asshole (I was joking with my elitist comment earlier, if you couldn't tell).

I thought of an example kind of related to this for me. I find Micheal Vick to be a detestable individual, and when he was let back into the NFL, I was thoroughly disgusted. But despite that, it would be silly of me to say he is a bad football player or that his athletic skills should be looked at in line with how he is as a person. The two issues are unrelated. I don't know, maybe it's bad example, but it makes sense to me.

Racketboy #1 forum for going off tangent.

[BurningDoom]

My point in that was that despite my feelings, I don't talk about how much I feel Burzum sucks when they're brought up.

Except... you do. You make it quite clear you dislike Varg and Burzum every time it is brought up in the thread. But that's your right to do so, that kind of thing goes pretty much hand in hand with music discussion. It doesn't make you an elitist or an asshole (I was joking with my elitist comment earlier, if you couldn't tell).

I thought of an example kind of related to this for me. I find Micheal Vick to be a detestable individual, and when he was let back into the NFL, I was thoroughly disgusted. But despite that, it would be silly of me to say he is a bad football player or that his athletic skills should be looked at in line with how he is as a person. The two issues are unrelated. I don't know, maybe it's bad example, but it makes sense to me.

Racketboy #1 forum for going off tangent.

Pretty sure I haven't once talked about Burzum or their music sucking; just Varg himself in relation to his actions.