Which company do you think aims for quality?

[BoneSnapDeez]

Bethesda? Seriously? Those games are some of the shittest broken pieces of software I have ever had the misfortune of suffering through. Atrocious console ports aside, even the PC versions are inevitably train-wrecks (unless modded) once you've played for a few hours and the game world has managed to rape itself. Maybe the Gamebyro engine should take the blame, but if anything Bethesda is the complete opposite of quality.

It doesn't help that the actual games themselves are about as fun as checking your spam box for real e-mails. The maps look like they were put together by a cat dancing on a keyboard with the Warcraft II map editor, zero creativity or thought put into the environments. Fallout is straight up embarrassing with this, the entire god damn game is a sand dune sprinkled with destroyed buildings. This made having to walk everywhere a real blast with absolutely nothing to look at or do 90% of the time, thank god the combat was so incredibly awesome and engaging. Their main quests are mind-numbingly boring and the side-quests are standard copy/paste yawn fests. The only thing anyone has any fun doing in these games is aimless killing/stealing stuff or modding the hell out of them.

But come on, man! It's a huge ~*open world*~. You can do anything want! Unlike those crappy linear Japanese games.

[AppleQueso]

I'd like to think that most companies aim for quality. It's not like they'd have anything to gain by actually trying to make a poor product.

[Xeogred]

I know Bethesda games usually have bugs issues out the wazoo especially at launch, but the content is usually pretty good once you get past the issues. I mean if I can sink 100+ hours into a single player game and still have stuff left to do then it qualifies as pretty darn good in my book.

This is my logic.

I have encountered far more bugs/glitches in Bioware/Ubisoft games (Assassin's Creed, ALL the ones I played, they never improved the engine a damn bit) more than Bethesda games over the years.

I fell through the ground in New Vegas once, but that didn't stop me from enjoying the other 60 hours I sunk into the game. These games constantly auto-save left and right, so not a big deal.

I can't imagine you played New Vegas bruno? Obisidan have some of the best writing in games period. KOTOR II really blows the Mass Effect games out of the water when it comes to dialogue if you ask me, way more neutral grey line material, and New Vegas is the same stacked up against Fallout 3 or Skyrim. Every single faction in New Vegas had personality and your choices often shaped the entire game, good or bad consequences, which is hardly the case in Fallout 3 or Skyrim. Join every guild... doesn't make a damn difference in the end, but that's not the case with New Vegas.

And anyone can hate me for this, but I don't hesitate at all to say I definitely prefer the gameplay in the newer Fallout's to the originals. Followers can completely block the corners of the maps and get in your way or even shoot you in the face, and the combat is essentially point and click... shoot, that's it. That's arguably what the FPS games are like too, but it's a bit more fun shooting at stuff in first person. I'd take Jagged Alliance over the original Fallout's if I want awesome isometric combat.

Even the stuff Bethesda publish thesedays are often single player only, and that's usually a plus in my book. They've got id, Arkane Studios, the people behind Prey 2, etc, lots of good stuff.

So yes, I think their writers for their in-house games suck, but I think Bethesda have become pretty awesome this gen.

And finally, 20+ years in my gaming run and I will just still never understand the notion of glitches ruining games for people. What's game breaking to me are cases like not being able to invert controls in Silent Hill 5 and them not even bothering to patch that. I've played most of Bethesda's stuff, Bioware stuff, Alpha Protocol, half the Assassin's Creed games, tons of sandboxes and GTA's, N64/PSX games had glitches all the time, and it's not all that hard to get crushed randomly in old Sonic games or get stuck in random areas in the original Super Mario Brothers (block corners and such)... and in the end, I can't say I gave a damn. I just kept playing and think nothing of this stuff. Crazy how much thought people put into this stuff sometimes.

lol

[Frerix]

Treasure. They just develop the games they want to make.

[brunoafh]

It’s not a question of glitches ruining an overall good experience, it’s a question of putting the word “quality” within a 100 mile radius of “Bethesda”. Every game has glitches, that’s inevitable. If only the acid trip physics were the least of the issues with their games though.

With lack of quality in their shit products I’m talking about the games running like slop, the save files constantly getting corrupt, the retarded decisions with how they “optimize” textures (this grass isn’t high res enough!), the abysmal, flat out unacceptable ports, and just the general carelessness of the game design. People slam JRPGs for getting lazy this gen?

The combat is essentially point and click, only with a Z-axis and slo-mo gimmicks to compliment the guns in Fallout 3. Nothing to write about there. That’s where the super inventive and fantastically creative world... wait, not that. Right, that’s why the deep, complex characters make it such… or I mean the innovative casting systems… no, must be the awseome 500 menu deep character creation tool where people are able to wringe 100 hours of enjoyment out of these games.

[BurningDoom]

But come on, man! It's a huge ~*open world*~. You can do anything want! Unlike those crappy linear Japanese games.

Why do I have to hate JRPGs just because I like Bethesda?

A game that keeps me completely engrossed for 100 hours, is a game that is well worth the money it goes for. And is that not what quality is? Getting the most for your money?

[Gamerforlife]

Haven't played any thatgamecompany games, but Shadow of the Colossus and Ico are great - even if the gameplay isn't that fun. Correct me if I'm wrong, but by "production value" you mean telling a story though visual design, music, metaphor, and atmosphere. That's the entire point of these two games. In their case, how is "production value" different from "quality?"

I don't really understand the gameplay criticism. They aim for realism in those games, which may make the controls slightly awkward, but by no means bad. Also, the fun of solving puzzles in Ico or solving the "boss" puzzles in Shadow of Colossus is great.

What you call production value usually refers to how expensive something looks, particularly in television. I don't think those games aim for that. They aim for an artistic beauty that shows more in the way of creative vision than dollar signs. I mean it's hard to imagine that a ton of money was spent on little PSN titles like Flower or Journey, but every dollar spent of them was used to create something artistically unique and beautiful

When you look at the breathtaking visuals in those games, how beautifully animated Ico and Yorda were. There's a real attention to detail there. You look at how interconnected every area was in Ico. You could look off in the distance and see where you've been. Also, just the unique look of both of those games. Nothing else on console looks like Ico or Shadow of Colossus. They've created a unique fantasy world that is unique and identifiable as a Team Ico world. SOTC was blowing away 360 games when it came out as I recall. It just looked THAT amazing, at least artistically speaking.

As for thatgamecompany, they are very similar to Team Ico. Journey has a unique, artistic style. Also, both Flower and Journey have a real poetry in motion to them. It's not enough to see screenshots. You have to actually watch someone play those games. Journey has so much thought put in every area of the game, and every character, all for the purpose of creating an emotional, even spiritual experience for that player.

I think Team Ico and Thatgamecompany are in a league of their own, and given their relatively low output thus far, there is a high standard of quality that they have maintained with their games. Amazing how that happens when you actually take time with your games rather than being a slave to a schedule or a yearly output like some companies. You end up with little masterpieces.

[flex wood]

A game that keeps me completely engrossed for 100 hours, is a game that is well worth the money it goes for. And is that not what quality is? Getting the most for your money?

I don't think so I mean you could spend hundreds if hours playing shovel ware on the Wii but it still doesn't make it a quality game. Most Bethesda games are like cardboard cut outs. Sure they look good but to me just end up feeling so flat. There's never any likeable characters, the stories are boring and the gameplay is usually dry and not very rewarding due to level scaling. Oh and don't forget the complete lack of AI.

[BogusMeatFactory]

One of the companies I am putting my money on is Cyan Worlds. The world they created in the Myst series is beyond amazing and still astounds me at the level of detail they put in their games. It is a sad fate to see where they are now, but I can not help but believe that what they created will be remembered for a lifetime.

[Gamerforlife]

A game that keeps me completely engrossed for 100 hours, is a game that is well worth the money it goes for. And is that not what quality is? Getting the most for your money?

I don't think so I mean you could spend hundreds if hours playing shovel ware on the Wii but it still doesn't make it a quality game. Most Bethesda games are like cardboard cut outs. Sure they look good but to me just end up feeling so flat. There's never any likeable characters, the stories are boring and the gameplay is usually dry and not very rewarding due to level scaling. Oh and don't forget the complete lack of AI.

Sums up why I've never spent more than a few hours with an Elder Scrolls game. Add them to the long list of last gen games (are the PS3/360 officially last gen now?) I consider massively overrated.