Random Gaming Thoughts

[Menegrothx]

I'll give you that the level design is from visual point of view poor, it was even when the game was new. And due to the limitations of the technology of 2000, the cities aren't nearly as big and filled with people as they're supposed to be.

Superb and deep story? Did we play the same game? I gave up counting all of the cliches and silly conspiracy theories they used.

Examples:
Gunther's role in the game
The conversation with Morpheus
The conversation with the bartender in Hong Kong

Can you name any FPS games that make "philosophical" points like that? Can you name any FPS games in general with a story as good as Deus Ex? I know FPS games with well written stories, but none like Deus Ex. Very few games in general really have a point to their story: you can have a well written story with amazing twists and well written conversations that still doesn't really make you as a player/reader think. Deus Ex raises intresting points on certain subjects like transhumanism and human nature, presents you both/multiple views on the subject and doesn't declare that one point of view is right and the other is wrong. There are no good guys and bad guys, just people fighting for different causes, and they all think they're right.

In most video games the point of the story is to take you on a journey/epic adventure, not the story itself. Like you said Deus Ex takes place in quite boring locales but it has a message.

Forced bullshit like:

1.The fight in the plane that putting mines on the wall in the hallway to the meeting room give away the fact that Anna is a 'bad guy' as she will cause them to blow but not the guy you're meeting.

2.The unwinnable fight with Gunther after emerging from the subway with insurmountable waist-height fences, a sewer grate in a shack you can open, but curiously not do down, and even if you load the stairwell with mines and shoot and grenade the hell out of Gunther, he cannot be damaged despite that killing any other enemy multiple times.

1.

Not sure what you're referring to. Anyways killing her is handled well in this game, as you have many ways to do it and people react to you differently based on what you decide to do.
http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Anna_Navarre
Deaths
The game offers several opportunities in which Anna Navarre can be killed, and this affects later responses by Hermann and other characters.

The first chance is early on when you are sent to arrest Juan Lebedev in his private jet at LaGuardia. You will find Lebedev after you have spoken to your brother Paul, who informs you that he has been working with the NSF. You'll spend some time talking with Lebedev as he tries to turn you. After the first conversation ends Anna will barge in and order you to kill Lebedev. At this point, you can choose to open fire on Anna and kill her, but be careful not to kill her too close to Lebedev because Mechs explode when killed. Alternatively, you can place a LAM in the hallway just outside of Lebedev's room before you initiate conversation, which will kill her immediately with no need for a fight. If you kill her, Lebedev will be glad to see that you turned and says someone will contact you.

If you did choose to kill Lebedev or simply let Anna kill him, then there'll be two more points where you will have a chance to kill her. The first is when you take the subway to Battery Park and Anna storms in. You'll have another chance during your escape from UNATCO HQ. The easiest way to do it is by hacking several computers around the base before you proceed to the exit. On two of these computers you will find two parts of her killphrase. Once you have found them, you will simply tell Anna "Flatlander Woman" and she self-destructs. You can, of course, just choose to shoot her.

When Anna is dead, Gunther Hermann takes the death of his partner personally. If you pick the first chance to kill Anna, he won't immediately realise and assumes something went wrong on the plane. Eventually though, Hermann will catch up and he'll be in a very foul mood.

At the end of the first game, Anna Navarre is dead, killed by JC Denton. If you use the exploit to get past her, she never makes a later appearance.
Behind the scenes

Like Gunther Hermann, agent Navarre can be terminated by simply speaking aloud a killphrase specifically. As in Gunther's case, death only occurs after a few seconds, long enough for Navarre to express her fury ("How did you know-?!").
Navarre's killphrase is Flatlander Woman, but to use it, JC must decipher it. Part of it is on Navarre's own computer in the makeshift office on the way to the level 3 jail, and the other part is on Manderley's computer.

2.

I agree that that particular scene was handled poorly, but it's an essential part of the story. The game is less unlinear and more interactive than majority of (story based) FPS games so I don't see what the big deal with that one particular scene is given that the area/scene it leads to is a major event in the storyline, and is hence needed.

I don't see any reason to complain about waist high fences because
A) Take any modern shooter game and it has a thousand times more of those and level design that consists of going from one uninteractive cutscene to another in a straight line. That fight and it's aftermath is a major part of the storyline so it's understandable that the developers don't want that players can skip it. Even if a game is unlinear, you still need some structure and scenes that are mandatory if you want to to tell a very intricate story. Majority of Deus Ex is more unlinear and freeform than any cutscene to cutscene corridor shooter where you can't influence the outcome of the story so you're either barking up the wrong tree or comparing it to the wrong games.
B)

[Hobie-wan]

Examples:
Gunther's role in the game
The conversation with Morpheus
The conversation with the bartender in Hong Kong

I'll admit they were meatier than most FPS games, but other than Gunther feeling threatened by the 'newer model', the other examples didn't stick with me at all because I can't even remember what they talked about. I felt all of it was weighed down by the silly Illuminati/area 51/self aware AI nonsense that was not only cliche, but done much better in other media previously. It tried to take itself too seriously and be profound that it wasn't. Saying it has a great story for an FPS is like being the fastest runner in 3rd grade. Sure that's great for a third grader, but honestly still crap compared to an olympic marathoner. If people said things like "It really tried to be an FPS that had a story that meant a bit more than the evil bad man is bad and I should point the explodey end of the boom stick at him, maybe the next attempt will be great" I think I wouldn't mind as much.

Can you name any FPS games that make "philosophical" points like that? Can you name any FPS games in general with a story as good as Deus Ex? I know FPS games with well written stories, but none like Deus Ex. Very few games in general really have a point to their story: you can have a well written story with amazing twists and well written conversations that still doesn't really make you as a player/reader think. Deus Ex raises intresting points on certain subjects like transhumanism and human nature, presents you both/multiple views on the subject and doesn't declare that one point of view is right and the other is wrong. There are no good guys and bad guys, just people fighting for different causes, and they all think they're right.

To me it tried to remain neutral and ended up being bland and boring.

1.

I meant this as a terrible bug that I can't believe wasn't ever fixed. The first time I met Lebedev I was unhappy that Anna barged in and shot the guy when he was being cooperative. So I reloaded my save and put mines in the hallway for grins. So she comes down the hall and they exploded before she even got in the room and spoke. That's a terrible bug. I hadn't even spoken to her and she was already marked as an enemy and set off the mines. That tells me that the 'right' thing to do was kill her there. If they went off after I spoke to her and then she went hostile, that would have been in line with the game reacting to your play, not being set a certain way.

2.

I realize it was a forced plot point and I'm fine with that. It's the extremely poor handling of it that bothered me. If you want to make sure it is a fight I will lose, spend more time making it believable if you're trying to handle your entire game in a believable manner. If you're not going to do it with a cutscene and leave me in control, you'd better not fuck around and be very careful and tie up all those loose ends so it doesn't jerk me out of any immersion that's going on. If it makes me go "WTF that's bullshit" and I start trying to find ways to not let it happen, you've failed.

There were little folding barricades preventing you from leaving the area outside the subway exit. Lame. The one shack with the manhole cover was right there and accessible from the small area. You could run in there, open up the manhole, and then were simply just unable to climb down. Lame and sloppy. Block off that shack at the very least. There was a mech, a handful of soldiers, and Gunther out there. I was carrying firearms, mines, and grenades with plenty of power to wipe them all out multiple times. You could load the stairwell with mines, lure Gunther down, and toss grenades at him with enough damage to kill him many times over. Lame and arbitrary.

Gunther should have been placed so it would make sense that you wouldn't even be able to deliver any damage to him. Have him talking over a loudspeaker until you were subdued somehow. Or activate some early stage minor failsafe device that was less than the one already there to kill you. Have you get whacked with some large blunt object that would make sense that you'd be unable to blow up.

I don't know right this moment, but I'm sure that something could have been thought up that was better than folding temporary barriers, a handful of troops, and Gunther wearing an invincible unhappy face while standing right out in the open.

[johnny turbo]

The last 20 minutes or so of Bioshock Infinite are intense, riveting, and stupid-grin inducing. A great game start to finish, and one of the more compelling examples of games as a storytelling medium you will likely ever see.

I was so sad when it was over. It's already pretty much eclipsed anything else that is going to come out this year IMO. It was especially good since I was really doubting how good it would be. Bioshock 2 wasn't terrible, but it wasn't exactly great.

[dsheinem]

I've always been sympathetic to Hobie's points on Deus Ex. I don't see the appeal of any of the games in the series, having played a few hours of each.

I'd say that all the games in the "Shock series" are better examples of FPS storytelling around pseudo-philosophical ideas. I'd happily take Bioshock 2 over the best Deus Ex game.

[Ack]

Personally I'd rather play S.T.A.L.K.E.R. than Deus Ex. Sure, the story might not be so great, but I enjoy the openness of the world, so I can create my own story. It's not about what the game forces me to experience, it's how I come across the random experiences in between which lead to the most excitement I experience while playing.

[SNKnicotine]

I think Zillion should get a remake or reboot

[Stark]

I've always been sympathetic to Hobie's points on Deus Ex. I don't see the appeal of any of the games in the series, having played a few hours of each.

I'd say that all the games in the "Shock series" are better examples of FPS storytelling around pseudo-philosophical ideas. I'd happily take Bioshock 2 over the best Deus Ex game.

Yeah I think I'm with you. I've only finished Human Revolution out of the DE series. Where I've beaten every "shock" game, minus Infinite, because I just haven't got it yet.

Random Thought: I just saw a pic of Bayonetta and my mind immediately associated the article with Irixith, instead of the game.

[lisalover1]

Is it just me, or has emulation hit a wall of practicality? It seems like except on PC, the highest-end console any homebrew-capable device can run is the N64, if that. Even the Saturn and Dreamcast haven't gotten decent emulation as of yet. I know that they're complicated machines, but I just assumed that with all the power going into modern phones and handhelds that it would at least be playable at this point.

[Erik_Twice]

I've seen Dreamcast games running on the Pandora. Or, rather, walking.

You are right in that we hit a wall. Power rose exponentially and my experiences with PS2 emulation on my computer were terrible so I don't have many hopes for handheld emulation of it right now.

[flojocabron]

WHOOO HOOOO!!!!

I finally beat Disgaea 2 after 9 months and 325 hours!

Damn this game it makes me want to find everything, and I barely even scratched the surface.

But now that I beat it, its offering more content(story)!

ITS SUCKING ME BACK IN!

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!