Backtracking in open/metroidvania style games

[Gamerforlife]

The best form of "backtracking" actually has you taking different routes that were inaccessible the first time - either giving you a reason to use new power-ups, or because existing terrain/pathways undergo some change based on what was accomplished. .

Yup. That's what I was praising Resident Evil 4 for earlier in the thread.

[Xeogred]

Games like these and Deus Ex / Thief styled FPS's are like my favorite designs in... game design. Semi-open, semi-linear, with lots of possibilities and exploration to be had. Every corner and every little path feels like it has a purpose and leads to something.

Just always liked gaining new abilities that let you reach new areas or getting new items/weapons, etc. But yeah making it dynamic can be a challenge. Throw in some new enemies or whatnot, and I do like shortcuts in the long run, like the teleporting in the CV's and stuff.

[Jrecee]

There's actually no permanent upgrades (bummer, sorry), but my inspiration was actually a certain plumber based game and how its transport system could be interesting if everything was interconnected. But I will be taking your suggestions into consideration. I always sucked at games like metroid because I never know where to go or what to do, and I always ended up lost. So making sure players don't wander aimlessly for ages is of utmost importance. But I want a feeling of exploration as well.

[BurningDoom]

There's actually no permanent upgrades (bummer, sorry)

Really? None at all? And it's Metroidvania style? All the Metroids, Castlevanias, Rygars, Cave Story, Battle of Olympus and the sort have these, though.

Maybe I'm not understanding the idea fully; but what's the point of backtracking through areas you've already played through if there's no reward for doing it?

[AppleQueso]

The thing about games like Metroid is that the map is actually layed out in such a way that you're sorta natrually and subtly guided where you need to go anyway. If you get a new item and you need to go back to a part way earlier in the game to use it, chances are the game map will have you progressing further until it loops back to a previous area, etc. This is also useful for the designer because it allows them to predict where the player will be in the game and create new events accordingly.

If you aren't doing permanent upgrades, then the exploration might end up feeling tedious or arbitrary. In Metroid, the upgrades are both rewards for exploring and tools for further exploration.

Everything is always a balancing act though I suppose. Nobody ever said game design was easy.

[Jrecee]

I guess I'm doing sort of a genre mashup more than a metroidvania style game. There are powerups, but they are handled more like Mario World. The whole idea is technically more like Mario World, if instead of a map, you just went from level to level taking warp pipes and it was all interconnected like that. Make sense? The benefits of having a certain power up at a certain time still apply.

I've mapped things out a little more, and it's definitely going to need some central areas that the rest of the game branches out of. Example, if things just went

A - B - C - D - E - F

You'd have to backtrack through 5 levels to get from F to A. But if it's set up more like

D - A - B - E
.....|
.....C
.....|
.....F

You can still let the player explore and choose their path. Incidentally, that's pretty much how Wonder Boy: The Dragon's trap is set up, which is also a big inspiration for this game.

[Anapan]

Milk the areas for all they're worth - either include in the storyline why the enemies have upgraded to better forms, or have a new enemy added when a checkpoint is reached. Even having the areas or enemies adapt to the player's level/exp/strength makes for a fun challenge in the game. Never leave the same area too familiar (unless it's a hub and you'll destroy it near the end) or unless it can be quickly avoided because of an item that unlocks an alternate route or weapon that the player has recently aquired (warp points, shortcuts, or aggressive but weak speed attacks that can take out all the weak enemies in swaths). The main goal is to have the area change or the player change to the point that using the same map area gives the player the feeling of progress without having made it all that far.
I really love going through the same area but finding it's beautiful clean appearance completely turned to rubble and wondering what happened there only to find the culprit shortly after having destroyed a few more areas and sitting in the way of continuing through a new opening to a new area it's just ripped into.

edit: actually didn't read many of the replies but I think my comments are valid anyway.

Modern Metroidvania trope - make it familiar and then destroy or completly change it - use most or all areas at least twice with minimal effort.

[Jrecee]

I never had a big problem with enemies respawning when you enter a new 'screen'. What bugged me was that move back 5 pixels and enemies respawn crap from games like Mega Man and Super Empire Strikes Back. In the second case it completely ruined the game.

Anyway, I'm rethinking the way I lay everything out in this game. It will still be open in some way but probably not comparable to metroid or castlevania.