My thought's on 3D Castlevania...

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Dylan
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Re: My thought's on 3D Castlevania...

Post by Dylan »

I'm liking the comparisons to Demon's/Dark Souls in this thread so far.
Gamerforlife wrote:Take that Metroid style, keep that modern setting, but with demons and monsters every where. Add some rpg elements, but not in that stupid Elder Scrolls way that they did with Darksiders 2, but in a JRPG style. Maybe bring in a complex magic system like the awesome one in Eternal Darkness. The combat system should be something simplified. I'm tired of that Devil May Cry/God of War style combat. That's not keeping in the spirit of the old, 2D Castlevania games. We've already got the Devil May Cry series for that over the top, anime-ish combat in a gothic setting. The combat system should be something a bit slower and more defense oriented(maybe give him a shield). Belmont is a MAN, not a half demon super hero. Fights should be about SURVIVING, not flipping and jumping around everywhere and showing off.
Combat is where a 3D Castlevania could take the most influence from Dark Souls. I agree with the sentiments that having a Belmont jump balls first into a group of enemies and mash attack isn't true to the Castlevania spirit. In older Castlevania titles, the point was to assess hazards from afar and quickly devise a strategy to handle them before they were already upon you. This is where Dark Souls comes in. In Dark Souls your character doesn't take hits like it's no big deal, if you're not careful you can overextend yourself, and there are lots of environmental hazards like pitfalls, traps, and damage zones.

That's what a 3D Castlevania should be like. Mowing down baddies and running through static scenery from clump to clump of enemies isn't the point. 3D Castlevanias have never managed to capture the element of tension that the older titles had because they've never really tried. What we need is a less tanky hero, a simplified combat system, and good environmental interaction.

Now you're playing a game where the goal is to approach enemies and obstacles like a dynamic puzzle, there's enough pressure to make you need to keep moving forward in most cases (like medusa heads), but enough monsters and hazards that you need to approach them smartly or else you'll get overwhelmed and crushed. Combat is simple, it's a matter trying to control fights by keeping enemies within your ideal attack range while not letting yourself get surrounded. Ranged enemies want to keep their distance, melee enemies try to move in close. The strategy is about spacing and using what you know about enemy behavior to survive, not mashing roll.

Also: some thoughts on maintaining complexity while keeping melee combat simple. The beauty of Castlevania is that even in 2D it had a great meta game with how subweapons factored in. It's all about the advantages you choose to have over others. a magic system in a new Castlevania would be great, what do you shoot for? Maybe you want to go for better AoE magic spells or ranged attacks, maybe you want to focus on offensive and defensive buffs to improve your melee combat. What about sub weapons? Knifes would be great for handling the weaker ranged enemies, but holy water would make dealing with tanky enemies less of a pain. There are plenty of opportunities to introduce the complexity and customization we'd expect from a modern game but stay true to the Castlevania spirit.
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Lodestar
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Re: My thought's on 3D Castlevania...

Post by Lodestar »

Gamerforlife wrote:
Nemoide wrote:I played Castlevania: Lament of Innocence last year and was surprised to find that it was actually pretty good. Is it one of the best Castlevania titles? No. But it held my interest, I had fun with it, and it had that Castlevania atmosphere I love so much.
I'm looking forward to playing Curse of Darkness at some point this year.

While Lords of Shadow was a decent game, I was let down by how not-Castlevania-y it felt. I'm really hoping the second one focuses more on a gothic atmosphere than "fight goblins in the dark ages" kind of a thing.
Yeah, that's one of the things that turned me off of Darksiders 2 as well. I'm so sick of the LOTR vibe so many games have. I'm playing as death! I wanna talk to demons and fight supernatural shit, not run errands for some big orc people in some generic, fantasy world

It's so hard to find games with that Castlevania feel. Lords of Shadow only had it for one level, where you got to fight vampires in cemetaries. Darksiders 1 had it, then they kind of lost it in the second one. I miss Soul Reaver. It had that gothic vibe
You need to play Dark Souls if you really want dark and gothic. I'm surprised you haven't, given all you've said here, it's certainly up your alley and I fully endorse it myself--I put about 200 hours into it.

Funny thing is, I've been saying Dark Souls is what 3-d Castlevania should've been ever since I started playing it, and I'm sure a lot of other folks echo the same notion.

Darksiders 2 was a let-down to me, I felt like Death was not ominous and scary, he just seemed like a wise-cracking, try-hard badass. Instead of seeing Death, I saw the writers behind the character and couldn't bring myself to like 'em.
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Bagel
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Re: My thought's on 3D Castlevania...

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How do you guys feel about the Mirror of Fate demo? Keeps the 3D LOOK while returning to the "Metroidvania" formula of exploring a castle and getting power-ups. Anything that can be done to make it better?
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Re: My thought's on 3D Castlevania...

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Bagel wrote:How do you guys feel about the Mirror of Fate demo? Keeps the 3D LOOK while returning to the "Metroidvania" formula of exploring a castle and getting power-ups. Anything that can be done to make it better?
I honestly had not even heard of Mirror of Fate before seeing your post. If that's true then that is very comforting, and I hope the game get's the recognition it deserve's.
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Re: My thought's on 3D Castlevania...

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MrEco wrote:
Bagel wrote:How do you guys feel about the Mirror of Fate demo? Keeps the 3D LOOK while returning to the "Metroidvania" formula of exploring a castle and getting power-ups. Anything that can be done to make it better?
I honestly had not even heard of Mirror of Fate before seeing your post. If that's true then that is very comforting, and I hope the game get's the recognition it deserve's.
There's gameplay footage on youtube. It looks exactly like Lords of Shadow's combat, converted to 2D
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Stark
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Re: My thought's on 3D Castlevania...

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Gamerforlife wrote:
MrEco wrote:
Bagel wrote:How do you guys feel about the Mirror of Fate demo? Keeps the 3D LOOK while returning to the "Metroidvania" formula of exploring a castle and getting power-ups. Anything that can be done to make it better?
I honestly had not even heard of Mirror of Fate before seeing your post. If that's true then that is very comforting, and I hope the game get's the recognition it deserve's.
There's gameplay footage on youtube. It looks exactly like Lords of Shadow's combat, converted to 2D
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Re: My thought's on 3D Castlevania...

Post by irixith »

The demo for Mirror of Fate is very underwhelming.

If that's an indication of what the final product is like, Castlevania and I are getting divorced. On the upside, it looks very, very pretty.
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Xeogred
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Re: My thought's on 3D Castlevania...

Post by Xeogred »

I think some of you guys kind of got it right. Even FAR more than Demon's Souls, some of my friends and I love to joke that Dark Souls is EVERYTHING new Castlevania should've been. Minimal story, huge interconnected world, lots of playstyles, brutal difficulty, etc. Seriously slap some of the series trademark items and throw some Medusa Heads out there, it'd be utterly Castlevania in my eyes.

Lords of Shadow is not the answer at all. I am extremely pissed they're taking this series to the handhelds now and considering how awful the XBLA game was, I guess even classic 2D Castlevania is dead at this point.

The formula can be done in 3D. Retro easily pulled it off with Metroid Prime. Whether you like the perspective or not is a different thing, but gameplay/formula wise, it was utterly true Metroid to the core.
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Re: My thought's on 3D Castlevania...

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