How are we supposed to collect games in the future?

[RyaNtheSlayA]

PC gaming has been this way pretty much the last 4 years. It sucks but we're doing okay.

Unless it's something indy, you can buy most legit PC games in physical form just like any 360/PS3/Wii game. Even indy games are available in physical form, it's just more expensive than regular download. And now the old big boxes seem to be making a sort of a return as many kickstarter projects are promising a big box version for people who donate a certain amount of money.

Context. Did you read the post I quoted?

Even when you buy the in box versions, they're usually tied to some sort of account or even your PC at this point. I didn't say you couldn't but PC games in physical form.

[Retronomy]

Incoming wall of text:

The biggest problems with digital download release platforms in terms of collecting/owning games isn't exactly the lack of a physical product.

-There is no guaranteeing that services like the steam platform will be around forever, or ever for the rest of our lives. In fact, logic dictates that it will not.
-In situations such as steam, you've be surprised how easy it is to lose an account. Don't believe me? Check out the hackforums market place.
-You are trusting another entity with your collection, which means said entity is capable of making your games inaccessible, whether purposeful or not. We've seen this recently with some Wii to Wii U transfers where people lost games. (Of course, in most cases Nintendo addressed the situation quite well.)

Conversely, owning the physical medium means

-Your games will last longer than you do if properly cared for.
-Theft is going to happen less often, as people aren't exactly able to steal your entire collection remotely.
-You are solely responsible for your games. If you are capable of taking care of your collection then there are no problems. However, accident prone people are going to be at a loss here.

After this point, we get to the superficial benefits of physical collections.

-The Tactile Element - Being able to touch and hold your collection.
-The Visual Element - Regardless of TOS and perhaps DRM, there is nothing anyone can do about you owning original, physical copies of a game. It is YOURS, you can see the product, it is there. Even the recent trend of steam games that have physical distributions have this. You can display your collection how you see fit.

That said, I still do like steam very much. I was hesitant for the longest time, but I started using steam just a few months ago. Since then the experience has been wonderful, and I am starting up a collection there, but I acknowledge the risk involved.

On rumors of ps4 and the next xbox:
Although I'd be sad that the physical medium would be gone, I think the bigger concern is the longevity of these games. The xbox line hasn't exactly had a good reputation for supporting their previous generation and I don't expect that to change any time soon. Sony has slowly been becoming this way too. Once the PS5 and the xbox 4 come out and support ends for the previous generation, the games will die when your system dies, and I wouldn't expect reimbursement at that time. This is especially true if the older rumors of a gamedisc that activates once (online) are valid.

[dsheinem]

Unless it's something indy, you can buy most legit PC games in physical form just like any 360/PS3/Wii game. Even indy games are available in physical form, it's just more expensive than regular download.

???

[irixith]

Unless it's something indy, you can buy most legit PC games in physical form just like any 360/PS3/Wii game. Even indy games are available in physical form, it's just more expensive than regular download.

???

rofl!

[Fragems]

There are plenty of games to collect from the previous generations.

If things take a turn for the worse and they start forcing one time use codes on us I will probably just stick to playing and collecting on my older systems.

If they are smart they will just continue the practice of one time use codes for the online features. The sacred realm of SP should be playable for as long as the hardware exist. I feel like if they are stupid enough to force one time use codes on SP games then they are only screwing themselves since it will most likely result in lower game value and promote piracy.

[Ivo]

You know what the great divider between physical and digital games is, as far as collecting goes? Scarcity. One has a finite number of copies, the other is literally unlimited. That's why "collecting" downloads will never be a thing.

To make an analogy that I'm sure will be quickly torn apart, it's like the difference between diamonds and gravel. One has a quite limited supply, the other we may never run out of.

The analogy is interesting for a few reasons (diamonds are artificially scarce, but anyway gravel is more common and easier to obtain regardless) but lets not get too much into that.

You are right that an important part of something that is collectible is related to scarcity.

But you are wrong because Digital items (and games need not be an exception) can have scarcity and can easily be more scarce than physical equivalents. In fact one of my main concerns with games going digital is precisely related to this.

In a strange twist, it was indirectly through piracy that many of games of previous generations ended up being preserved to play today. In fact, I wonder if download-only titles in services like Xbox live arcade, PSN and Wiiware been pirated so that they could conceivably be played many years from now by someone buying a used 360, PS3 or Wii even if the online services are no longer available?
If not and there is a high quality download only game, I can easily imagine it being much harder to obtain (and scarcer) than a physical game, because you would have to basically buy a console that had that game downloaded already!

If you want an extremely direct "like for like" comparison I again suggest a comparison of "paper" Magic the Gathering with the official "online" counterpart. In both cases there are virtually unlimited copies of "fakes" (proxied cards in paper, something like Apprentice of Magic Work Station lets you play online with as many cards as you want), but for whatever reasons (that I could discuss if you ar interested) the "real thing" has value - the real thing in this case goes for the "paper" cards and the official "digital objects" (even though some people may consider the online ones to not be the real thing, that distinction makes little sense to me when the paper cards are cardboard and ink).

The print run of "paper" cards is actually quite large, the print run of "online" cards is in theory unlimited but the policy (which has been maintained) is that they remove the respective older sets from sale. In principle nothing is stopping them from wholesale reprinting sets either in paper or online, other than their policies to not do that.
They also offer a service that converts a complete online set (if you collect 1 copy of each card from a given set) into a paper set that they ship to you (but they do not offer the reverse).

What usually happens is that online cards are less valuable than the physical counterparts, but there are significant exceptions related precisely to scarcity. Many of these examples are for sets that were only sold during the initial years of Magic Online, where there weren't as many online players. Those cards are invariably more valuable than the paper counterparts. There are other special cases like the card "Force of Will" which was distributed in a set that existed before Magic Online as an "Uncommon" but was only printed into a special online only set as "Rare". Players were given an official guarantee that the card would not be reprinted in a similar special online only set again. The set didn't sell very much for some reasons (that again I could discuss if you are interested) and in the end Force of Will online is rather scarce.

Ivo.

[Ivo]

And now for my 2nd wall of text...

Incoming wall of text:

The biggest problems with digital download release platforms in terms of collecting/owning games isn't exactly the lack of a physical product.

Agreed.

-There is no guaranteeing that services like the steam platform will be around forever, or ever for the rest of our lives. In fact, logic dictates that it will not.

Agreed, which is why GoG appeals so much more to some people. Conversely, physical items have less durability than digital product in general (more later).

-In situations such as steam, you've be surprised how easy it is to lose an account. Don't believe me? Check out the hackforums market place.

People are careless, this does not mean it is easy to lose it.

-You are trusting another entity with your collection, which means said entity is capable of making your games inaccessible, whether purposeful or not. We've seen this recently with some Wii to Wii U transfers where people lost games. (Of course, in most cases Nintendo addressed the situation quite well.)

Agreed.

Conversely, owning the physical medium means

-Your games will last longer than you do if properly cared for.

Disagree. This is one main advantage of digital over physical!

-Theft is going to happen less often, as people aren't exactly able to steal your entire collection remotely.

-You are solely responsible for your games. If you are capable of taking care of your collection then there are no problems. However, accident prone people are going to be at a loss here.

Disagree. I think with proper precautions your collection is far more safe "online" than in real life. You already mentioned theft (which I already think you are more exposed in physical items), but you don't seem to consider fires, floods and other ways you can easily lose part of your collection to the full extent. It is not just accident prone people. People can get insurances (and do).
Online there is little reason to get an insurance, particularly in GoG. In places like Steam games can not be moved out even if your account gets stolen, contacting the relevant authorities and proving your real identity will surely restore your access to your account.

Again a comparison between paper and online Magic: people at paper tournaments get decks stolen frequently. This never happens online. In cases where your account is hacked, in some known cases
Wizards of the Coast could reverse the (unauthorized) transfer of cards. People have rather large collections well worth stealing and it doesn't happen (particularly the online traders that have huge shops and make their livelihood out of buying and re-selling - they surely have thousands and thousands of dollars in inventory).

After this point, we get to the superficial benefits of physical collections.

-The Tactile Element - Being able to touch and hold your collection.
-The Visual Element - Regardless of TOS and perhaps DRM, there is nothing anyone can do about you owning original, physical copies of a game. It is YOURS, you can see the product, it is there. Even the recent trend of steam games that have physical distributions have this. You can display your collection how you see fit.

Tactile is one point online can not match. In terms of visual I think they have advantages - you can easily have things look visually appealing without "running out of shelf-space", you don't have stickers, damaged boxes, scratched discs, you don't need to get fingerprints on the boxes to look at them etc. This has some way to go still but in my opinion online can match and surpass physical here. Basically online has significant advantages in terms of storage.

On rumors of ps4 and the next xbox:
Although I'd be sad that the physical medium would be gone, I think the bigger concern is the longevity of these games.

Completely agree. I'm already worried about being able to get a 360, PS3 or Wii in the far-off future and not being able to play a great online-only game (perhaps Bubble Bobble Neo / Plus).

DLC (some of it is high quality) is even more of a lost cause. Some "expansions" will be quite scarce and inaccessible I think.

Ivo.

[irixith]

Completely agree. I'm already worried about being able to get a 360, PS3 or Wii in the far-off future and not being able to play a great online-only game (perhaps Bubble Bobble Neo / Plus).

I don't think this is fair -- if you want to play a great online-only game, you've got to be on the bandwagon. We know that online servers for anything that doesn't make it super mainstream get shut down relatively quickly, so if you want the experience at the time you have to pony up. That's not unreasonable. Not every experience can be preserved forever to suit the schedules of people that don't prefer to be in the current gen for whatever reason.

Luckily in terms of preservation, psn, wiiware and xbla games have been preserved. Maybe in the future when these systems are dead and gone, some enterprising hacker will figure out how we can hamachi them together for multi.

[Ivo]

I don't think this is fair -- if you want to play a great online-only game, you've got to be on the bandwagon. We know that online servers for anything that doesn't make it super mainstream get shut down relatively quickly, so if you want the experience at the time you have to pony up. That's not unreasonable. Not every experience can be preserved forever to suit the schedules of people that don't prefer to be in the current gen for whatever reason.

Luckily in terms of preservation, psn, wiiware and xbla games have been preserved. Maybe in the future when these systems are dead and gone, some enterprising hacker will figure out how we can hamachi them together for multi.

I wasn't clear, my fault. With "online-only" I didn't mean a multiplayer game or Diablo 3, but something (single player even) that only had an online distribution through Xbox Live Arcade, PSN or WiiWare and not on, say, the PC. It is losing those "products" that upsets me. Am I correct in interpreting your post that those are already preserved? That would be good news indeed.

I agree with you in general for stuff like MMOs, because those are impossible to "preserve" regardless. They evolve organically and the community is about as much that makes the "product" as the rest, even with the "source code" you couldn't replicate it anyway.

[DinnerX]

Conversely, owning the physical medium means

-Your games will last longer than you do if properly cared for.

Disagree. This is one main advantage of digital over physical!

I cannot see that as true unless the digital release was very loosely controlled. Authentication servers will likely die. Harddrives and other storage devices will fail. Consoles will break. Unless the game has no online authentication, can be copied, and the copies can run on other consoles/PCs, how can digital releases last as long as a disc, let alone a cartridge?

Disagree. I think with proper precautions your collection is far more safe "online" than in real life. You already mentioned theft (which I already think you are more exposed in physical items), but you don't seem to consider fires, floods and other ways you can easily lose part of your collection to the full extent.

In many instances people are more likely to lose a digital collection by some method, than a disaster is likely to destroy their physical collection. I know several people who've had harddrives fail, consoles break, or lost account information. I can't say I know many people who've had their houses robbed, flooded, burned, or flattened by a tornado.