Making piracy right

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jp1
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by jp1 »

8bit wrote:This topic has gotten out of hand IMHO. Some people need to settle down. There is a concept called supply and demand that drives our free market. Maybe yall should remind yourself what that means.

If a company wants to try to overcharge for something that people in general agree is too much, then they won't buy it. If the company is driven to make more sales to those not buying they will bring the price down.

Plenty of people think $349 is too much for a new Wii U. So they will not buy it until the price comes down. Nintendo knows this and the price will come down eventually if or when they deem it necessary. They are not forced to lower the price but the market is speaking to Nintendo when they do or do not make a purchase. It's the companies job to listen to this feedback and make adjustments as needed. Or like in Apples case, they want to carry a premium brand and part of that brand is their very well thought out pricing scheme. Just because you think $999 is too much for their entry level laptop that does not give you the right to steal one.

IGN covered the the topic about having to repurchase media across platforms very effectively in this recent article. Its worth the 3 minute read. http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/26/ ... tally-fair
Okay, well first I'm not upset. I can't settle down because I am settled. :D

I also don't know how many times I have pointed out that I am not advocating piracy. None of my points are meant to encourage someone to steal because of the problems I have with copyright law. Supply and demand has little to do with the reality of how these companies work. Hardware such as the Wii-U is a different story. It costs very little to press and package optical media. One could argue that if the company chose to sell at a more reasonable price then demand would increase, driving up sales, driving up profit, increasing the workforce, building a larger fanbase, etc..

In any case that doesn't factor in with the twisted "You own it, but you don't" attitude. Anyway, I don't know how it seems out of hand or out of control...simply a discussion from my point of view. I'm not angry and I am not insulting anyone and neither has anyone else. Polite discourse should be embraced. Unless you are referring to my joke, which was just that and nothing more, it wasn't meant as an attack at all.

As for the IGN article I don't disagree with that. If a game is made for Wii-U and also made for 3DS, I don't feel entitled to both as they obviously had completely different development cycles. I also don't mind paying a small upgrade fee to move my "intellectual property" from one platform to another. I don't agree with being sold "access to a game" and then being denied access to the exact same game on a different platform without paying full price again. If the game has been upgraded, enhanced, or changed in some way that required effort and work then that does not apply. If it is emulated then I should have access to it after I provide proof of previous ownership, with perhaps a small update fee to cover the minimal cost and effort put into bringing it to the new platform.
Last edited by jp1 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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jp1
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Re: Making piracy right

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General_Norris wrote:
jp1 wrote:how long is it fair to keep cashing in on the same old intellectual property before it is enough.
How long is it fair for you to living in the same old house before it is enough? Same question.

If it's mine, it's mine.

This part doesn't compute for me. I'm trying to see your point but it still seems like two separate things. If I purchase a house then I can live in it because I own it. If I purchase a game or movie I do not actually own it for the arbitrary reason that the distributor might want to charge me for it again later. Even then it doesn't work because I don't retain my rights to access the content I paid for when it moves from one platform to another. Some progress has been made here I'll admit with the inclusion of digital copy being included with Blurays. I still believe that there needs to be a clear cut decision made about the way "ownership" is transferred or not transferred and that if it benefits the customer in some way that is okay. Right now it is have their cake and eat it too.
What if the cheapest car cost a million bucks?
What if no woman ever wanted to sleep with us? :P

Consent is consent mate. I can't force someone to give up his rights or tolerate his opinion as long as it's the same as mine, it's just silly.
I see your point here and I can't argue that fact. So your argument is in favor of freedom in general and not only with regards to this issue? That is the problem I suppose because once you start drawing lines then you can never agree on where they should lay. To strip the company's right to do whatever they see fit with a product would be wrong, I concede to that. At the same time the company shouldn't be involved in our government or law making process any more than you or I. The whole process just feels dishonest to me. Make the product, sell it to me, then leave it alone. Don't try to control what is done with it after I purchase it. Don't dictate to me what my rights are with the object I just purchased from you. Is it mine once I pay or is it still yours? That's my real issue.

I do see how you cannot have a free market if people aren't allowed to keep making profits on intellectual property. I just don't see where a customers rights are being protected in the equation.
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8bit
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Re: Making piracy right

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jp1 wrote: Okay, well first I'm not upset. I can't settle down because I am settled. :D
My comments were not directed at you at all JP. I read the entire thread for the first time and just made my response based on my impression of the conversation so dont think it was intended just for you.

My main point is that people needs to accept the fact that pirating is stealing someone else intellectual property, PERIOD. They need to come to the realization that if they are going pirate, just agree that it was still wrong in the first place and be willing to accept consequences if something were to ever come of it. Don't try to justify it by bitching about the fact that $60 is too much for a game, $20 is too much for a DVD, $12 is too much for a movie ticket, $10 is too much for an album, its not available in your country, etc. That is just plain dumb and really undermines the purpose of living in a free market society.
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jp1
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Re: Making piracy right

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8bit wrote:
jp1 wrote: Okay, well first I'm not upset. I can't settle down because I am settled. :D
My comments were not directed at you at all JP. I read the entire thread for the first time and just made my response based on my impression of the conversation so dont think it was intended just for you.

My main point is that people needs to accept the fact that pirating is stealing someone else intellectual property, PERIOD. They need to come to the realization that if they are going pirate, just agree that it was still wrong in the first place and be willing to accept consequences if something were to ever come of it. Don't try to justify it by bitching about the fact that $60 is too much for a game, $20 is too much for a DVD, $12 is too much for a movie ticket, $10 is too much for an album, its not available in your country, etc. That is just plain dumb and really undermines the purpose of living in a free market society.
My mistake. :oops:
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Re: Making piracy right

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jp1 wrote:Make the product, sell it to me, then leave it alone. Don't try to control what is done with it after I purchase it. Don't dictate to me what my rights are with the object I just purchased from you. Is it mine once I pay or is it still yours? That's my real issue.
We agree on this. It's true that many companies now want to rent you their product without any of the responsabilities renting entails over selling.
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8bit
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by 8bit »

General_Norris wrote:
jp1 wrote:Make the product, sell it to me, then leave it alone. Don't try to control what is done with it after I purchase it. Don't dictate to me what my rights are with the object I just purchased from you. Is it mine once I pay or is it still yours? That's my real issue.
We agree on this. It's true that many companies now want to rent you their product without any of the responsabilities renting entails over selling.
I'll agree with this too. DLC on the disc you bought already is complete bullshit. And I hate purchasing downloadable content for some of the same reasons. I want to physically own what I buy because then I know one day it might be gone because I loose my data and its not available for download anymore or the company changes its policies. This is also why when Steam changed its policies and properties rights it was a really big deal. What they outlined in the terms of services was taking it one step way too far IMO.
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Jmustang1968
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Re: Making piracy right

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8bit wrote:
General_Norris wrote:
jp1 wrote:Make the product, sell it to me, then leave it alone. Don't try to control what is done with it after I purchase it. Don't dictate to me what my rights are with the object I just purchased from you. Is it mine once I pay or is it still yours? That's my real issue.
We agree on this. It's true that many companies now want to rent you their product without any of the responsabilities renting entails over selling.
I'll agree with this too. DLC on the disc you bought already is complete bullshit. And I hate purchasing downloadable content for some of the same reasons. I want to physically own what I buy because then I know one day it might be gone because I loose my data and its not available for download anymore or the company changes its policies. This is also why when Steam changed its policies and properties rights it was a really big deal. What they outlined in the terms of services was taking it one step way too far IMO.
I disagree. They just got rid of the lawyer money grab class action lawsuits.
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by o.pwuaioc »

Jmustang1968 wrote:
8bit wrote:
General_Norris wrote:We agree on this. It's true that many companies now want to rent you their product without any of the responsabilities renting entails over selling.
I'll agree with this too. DLC on the disc you bought already is complete bullshit. And I hate purchasing downloadable content for some of the same reasons. I want to physically own what I buy because then I know one day it might be gone because I loose my data and its not available for download anymore or the company changes its policies. This is also why when Steam changed its policies and properties rights it was a really big deal. What they outlined in the terms of services was taking it one step way too far IMO.
I disagree. They just got rid of the lawyer money grab class action lawsuits.
If they didn't do shitty things, they wouldn't have lawyers taking any money.
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by Jmustang1968 »

o.pwuaioc wrote:
Jmustang1968 wrote:
8bit wrote: I'll agree with this too. DLC on the disc you bought already is complete bullshit. And I hate purchasing downloadable content for some of the same reasons. I want to physically own what I buy because then I know one day it might be gone because I loose my data and its not available for download anymore or the company changes its policies. This is also why when Steam changed its policies and properties rights it was a really big deal. What they outlined in the terms of services was taking it one step way too far IMO.
I disagree. They just got rid of the lawyer money grab class action lawsuits.
If they didn't do shitty things, they wouldn't have lawyers taking any money.
Not necessarily true. I see a lot of class action lawsuits start off from petty vengeance. Like the lawyer in florida suing the spurs in a class action for resting players. Or customer didn't get what he wanted so he is out to screw over a company. Even if he loses the lawsuit, he has hurt the company and cost them money.
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jp1
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by jp1 »

Jmustang1968 wrote:
o.pwuaioc wrote:
Jmustang1968 wrote:
I disagree. They just got rid of the lawyer money grab class action lawsuits.
If they didn't do shitty things, they wouldn't have lawyers taking any money.
Not necessarily true. I see a lot of class action lawsuits start off from petty vengeance. Like the lawyer in florida suing the spurs in a class action for resting players. Or customer didn't get what he wanted so he is out to screw over a company. Even if he loses the lawsuit, he has hurt the company and cost them money.
Maybe there are some bad apples but why should that strip the good consumer of their rights? We deserve to be protected from bad practices just as they do. I'll admit I'm not completely familiar with what Steam did because I don't use the service..I've only read a little from a thread on the board here. However, it seems like they strong armed people into agreeing to their new terms or losing all the games they had already purchased. If that is the case then it is just plain wrong. Whatever terms were at time of purchase is what they should remain. I really like the way GOG does business actually if I'm working with digital content, there is no bullshit involved.
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