Stealth Games, Yay or Nay

[Key-Glyph]

I love the concept, but it's hard for me to handle the stress of the actual gameplay. I don't know why, but in general, avoiding the watchful eyes of guards and enemies -- even without dire consequences if caught -- puts me more on edge than openly exploring monster-infested mansions.

I've mostly avoided the genre because of this, but I've still always meant to give it a real shot. If I were to pick one up as my first, what would people suggest? I like the idea of no-kill runs being possible, if that's not already a built-in factor for all stealth games.

[Xeogred]

Stealth is very doable in Human Revolution but then you get rammed in the butt from the mandatory boss fights that were so stupid and out of place (outsourced too, apparently).

But yeah it's still easy to go for a non-lethal approach through most of the game, sticking to the shadows, etc. But this is a far bigger emphasis in Dishonored. Easy to tell Thief was their biggest influence there and it shows. No stupid boss battles, ludicrous amounts to go through missions... guns blazing with powers, or sticking to the dark for pure stealth. Although I personally like Deus Ex HR more, I'd definitely say Dishonored is more... organic? And flexible. I plan to replay it again soon and I can tell it's going to be a completely different experience every time I go through it. Deus Ex HR will be the same way, but Dishonored is a lot more subtle with its game design and all, they definitely wanted you to take your time and sink into the world, and do things however you wanted.

Basically get both.

While I like the Assassin's Creed games, I never see them as stealth at all.

Chronicles of Riddick is another good one as well. Since guns are very scarce and limited, you're going in melee most of the time and you're vulnerable, so always best to stick to the shadows.

Nothing can ever top Thief though.

I'm very hit or miss with the genre, but when the games do it right I love them. Obviously, take a step backward and play the Thief games if you haven't. But yeah I highly recommend Dishonored and the Riddick games, along with Deus Ex HR.

I love the concept, but it's hard for me to handle the stress of the actual gameplay. I don't know why, but in general, avoiding the watchful eyes of guards and enemies -- even without dire consequences if caught -- puts me more on edge than openly exploring monster-infested mansions.

I've mostly avoided the genre because of this, but I've still always meant to give it a real shot. If I were to pick one up as my first, what would people suggest? I like the idea of no-kill runs being possible, if that's not already a built-in factor for all stealth games.

This is exactly why I think the Thief games are just about the scariest and most intense games I've ever played. You have a sword, but in taking 2-3 hits max you're completely dead... got more than one guard on you, and you better run or you're dead. You've got arrows that do jack squat, your bow is mostly there for water arrows to take out torches. Other than that, your entire arsenal is completely non-lethal stuff to just help you get around the levels and to stay hidden in the shadows. You are forced to keep low because you're a fragile, vulnerable... an average, human being. You're supposed to go in and not leave a single trace.

No other game has captured this vibe in my opinion anywhere near as good as Thief, not even close.

Topped off with one of the coolest and weirdest settings I've ever lived through too, it's crazy. Some of the best neo-gothic stuff out there.

Games like the Splinter Cell series (the early ones) just pissed me off, trip on something or accidentally kill a dude... "HOLY CHRISTMAS FISHER, MISSION OVER".

[Gamerforlife]

This is exactly why I think the Thief games are just about the scariest and most intense games I've ever played. You have a sword, but in taking 2-3 hits max you're completely dead... got more than one guard on you, and you better run or you're dead. You've got arrows that do jack squat, your bow is mostly there for water arrows to take out torches. Other than that, your entire arsenal is completely non-lethal stuff to just help you get around the levels and to stay hidden in the shadows. You are forced to keep low because you're a fragile, vulnerable... an average, human being.

This is why I want to try more stealth games. I'm just tired of that status quo lack of realism in games. I want to play as someone who feels like a real human being, not some kind of robot masquerading as a human. Health bars are becoming the bane of my existence in other genres. Real people don't have health bars. They have fragile bodies that can easily be maimed, injured, or killed. Good stealth games capture that. You play Mark of the Ninja on new game plus mode, which is like a hard difficulty setting, and a guard can put your lights out with just one spray of bullets from his gun. Game over. You're dead.

I want REAL consequences for when I eff up in a game, not just seeing a health bar pop up to remind me that I'm playing a silly video game with a completely fake world with fake people in it and fake bullets. One of the things I liked about the Scott Pilgrim movie is that it exemplified how completely ridiculous the video game worlds we try to lose ourselves in really are, and did it in a funny way

[Menegrothx]

This is exactly why I think the Thief games are just about the scariest and most intense games I've ever played. You have a sword, but in taking 2-3 hits max you're completely dead... got more than one guard on you, and you better run or you're dead. You've got arrows that do jack squat, your bow is mostly there for water arrows to take out torches. Other than that, your entire arsenal is completely non-lethal stuff to just help you get around the levels and to stay hidden in the shadows. You are forced to keep low because you're a fragile, vulnerable... an average, human being. You're supposed to go in and not leave a single trace.

Nothing's more tense than lockpicking a door while you hear an enemy walking in a near by hallway, coming closer and closer. Especially if the enemy happens to be one of these guys
First person view+superb audio design make the gameplay experience so much more immersive and intense. It's very reminiscent of Penumbra and Amnesia. I think that Amnesia particularly was influenced by the Thief games.

But the good thing is that due to the nature of the unlinear level design, even if you get caught by a bunch of guards you can sprint like hell, close the doors behind you, take an alternative route and actually manage to slip past those guards to the place you were originally trying to get to while they are searching for you.

[Czernobog]

I have a love/hate relationship with stealth games. I'm normally an exceptionally patient person (it's sort of a job requirement), but I completely lose that patience when I'm playing stealth games and go sprinting like a madman into the jaws of death repeatedly thinking it might work next time. I really like most stealth games and will always give them a go, but I get frustrated because I take so long to get through them because of my suicidal tendencies. In games where you automatically have to retry if you're even seen, I do extremely poorly. Yet, something keeps pulling me back in.

[Xeogred]

This is exactly why I think the Thief games are just about the scariest and most intense games I've ever played. You have a sword, but in taking 2-3 hits max you're completely dead... got more than one guard on you, and you better run or you're dead. You've got arrows that do jack squat, your bow is mostly there for water arrows to take out torches. Other than that, your entire arsenal is completely non-lethal stuff to just help you get around the levels and to stay hidden in the shadows. You are forced to keep low because you're a fragile, vulnerable... an average, human being. You're supposed to go in and not leave a single trace.

Nothing's more tense than lockpicking a door while you hear an enemy walking in a near by hallway, coming closer and closer. Especially if the enemy happens to be one of these guys
First person view+superb audio design make the gameplay experience so much more immersive and intense. It's very reminiscent of Penumbra and Amnesia. I think that Amnesia particularly was influenced by the Thief games.

But the good thing is that due to the nature of the unlinear level design, even if you get caught by a bunch of guards you can sprint like hell, close the doors behind you, take an alternative route and actually manage to slip past those guards to the place you were originally trying to get to while they are searching for you.

Nice, I kind of wondered if Amnesia feels a bit similar. Since you're supposed to hide in those games from what I know and don't have weapons or something?

And I still need to play Thief 3 myself, so I'm looking forward to that. I know it won't top the first two, but still looks pretty awesome. I hear people say it's a better sequel than say Deus Ex IW was.

[ExedExes]

Games like the Splinter Cell series (the early ones) just pissed me off, trip on something or accidentally kill a dude... "HOLY CHRISTMAS FISHER, MISSION OVER".

That dude guiding you through the missions can be a bit much can he?

First mission -- DON'T STEP ONTO THE STREET. Then you gotta jump from one balcony to the other, and if you miss you fall onto the deserted street but you don't die, you're in a world of hurt, probably broke your legs and hurt your back, what do you get? WHAT DID WE SAY? DON'T WANT TO DRAG WASHINGTON INTO THIS NOW!

[Menegrothx]

Nice, I kind of wondered if Amnesia feels a bit similar. Since you're supposed to hide in those games from what I know and don't have weapons or something?

You cant defend yourself in anyway, it's the scariest horror game ever made

And I still need to play Thief 3 myself, so I'm looking forward to that. I know it won't top the first two, but still looks pretty awesome. I hear people say it's a better sequel than say Deus Ex IW was.

The difference between T1 and T2 is that in T1 the developers first wrote the plot, then made the levels. So, better plot (from what I've heard, I actually haven't finished the game myself yet) but too much levels where there's monster killing and combat. In T2 they designed the levels first and then came up with a plot that suited the levels. And Looking Glass Studios listented to the fans complaints and removed most monsters so the game would be all about sneaking and stealing stuff.
Since T3 had to be designed with consoles mind since it was ported for Xbox, the levels are split in to 2-3 separate parts and there's loading times between zones. You can also roam around in the city between missions which is nice at first since you can break into people's buildings and find secrets within the city, but since the city is also broken into smaller separate parts, it just doesn't feel very cohesive and getting from mission to mission gets tiring towards the end of the game.

Even with those flaws, 3 is still is a very good game. The athmosphere and story were still good and despite the fact that the levels had loading zones between the different parts, they were otherwise well designed. And the stealth elements actually had more depth in T3 since your shadow could give you away, so even if guards didnt' see you, they could spot your presence by seeing your shadow. And the game actually plays surprisingly well on a gamepad on the Xbox version, having an analog stick to control sneaking/walking/running works really well.

[Xeogred]

The weirder nature of the first game makes me like it a little more than T2 though, but I can see how people might favor one or the other. I don't miss the lack of zombies in T2 though... I'm at the bank level right now in T2, think I'm a little over halfway. I need to get back to it and finish it up. The atmosphere is still incredibly weird though and some of the levels like finding Garret's hideout and whatnot were really amazing.

I'm not surprised about T3 having broken up levels, since that engine is terrible. I replayed Invisible War last year after Human Revolution, and while I don't hate IW... the engine is just so frustrating, real pain to get working on modern systems, tiniest maps ever, and yeah. I hope T3's are at least a little bigger than IW's.

[Menegrothx]

The weirder nature of the first game makes me like it a little more than T2 though, but I can see how people might favor one or the other. I don't miss the lack of zombies in T2 though... I'm at the bank level right now in T2, think I'm a little over halfway. I need to get back to it and finish it up. The atmosphere is still incredibly weird though and some of the levels like finding Garret's hideout and whatnot were really amazing.

I agree. The developers wanted to make the sequel a more pure stealth experience so they had to sacrifice some of the weirdness of the first game. That stuff has a stronger presence in T3 though. But even with out the monsters, the world of Thief 2 is still a lot more intriguing and unique than that of MGS/Splinter Cell/Chronicles of Riddick/Hitman/Manhunt. Atleast Tenchu takes place in feudal Japan


The bank mission is actually the 6th level out of 15 so you're not past the halfway point yet I'd say that there's more and more of the weird stuff the further you get into the game as the plot thickens.