VGA boxes?
VGA boxes?
I'm looking for a VGA box peripheral that can play PS2 games at a decent quality. I have only heard horror stories about them and I thought this would be a good place to ask, seeing as reviews are scarce everywhere else. Any help would be much appreciated.
VGA boxes for a console or either cheap or good. There's very little cross-over.
You've brought up an interesting choice of console though - the PS2. The PS2 is notorious for being a pain in the ass. The first thing we need to address is the DVD Player. Without opening the console, you're not gonna get good quality over the DVD player... actually, let's back up. Second things first. Let's start with VGA.
VGA is the common term for all of the video signals transmitted over a standard 15 pin mini dsub connection for computers. VGA in and of itself is a picture that is 640x480 progressive at 31khz. Anything at a higher res such as 800x600 are technically their own beast (SVGA, XGA, etc.) but they still get called 'vga'.
A monitor capable of displaying a VGA picture is expecting 6 signals from your game console. Those signals are Red, Green, Blue, Ground, H-Sync and V-Sync. The red is the red in the picture, ditto blue, ditto green. The Ground is just the electrical ground needed to complete a circuit. H-Sync is the Horizontal Sync which is how fast the picture should refresh horizontally, V-Sync is how fast it should refresh vertically.
Pretty straight forward on what it wants. Now we're gonna get a little bit into why cheap VGA boxes are crap.
Most video game consoles are designed to output to a TV. TV's want a signal of 15khz. If you recall, a computer monitor wants a signal of 31khz. Most modern monitors do not accept 15khz. Now, if you get really lucky or do a little shopping and find a monitor that does 15khz - we stop here, because you'd be done. I could show you how to wire up the video signals directly to the monitor.
Odds are you're not that lucky, so you're gonna need to get that 15khz signal from your PS2 up to 31khz. This process is known as upscanning and can cost a fortune if you let it. Might cost $100 for a good upscanner that you can use with all your consoles.
I'm sure you've seen plenty of $20 and $40 vga boxes which take S-Video or Component and turn it into VGA. There's an issue with these boxes which is - VGA is not directly related to S-Video or Component.
This monsterous image is to show you something important. See how Component and VGA are on two different branches? That's because VGA is an RGB based signal (we talked about that earlier, yeah?) while Component is a YUV based signal.
YUV is a method of carrying image data where you first record how bright the image is (Luminance) and then record the color values using a predetermined formula (Chroma). In the case of Component the formula is blue - luminace and red - lumiance. Green is never actually carried, it's calculated by the display.
We'll start with the S-Video boxes. You display will look no better than S-Video on a good TV. The image doesn't improve it just changes. Component might have the image data you need for a good RGB picture, but you're looking at a somewhat precise calculation being done 31,000 times a second. Again, since you're jumping over that branch, money is an issue.
The plus side to Component is it's HD or Progressive scan, meaning you don't have to worry about getting the signal up to 31khz.
Option #1: "Take a 31khz signal and convert it to RGB" - A good quality YPbPr converter will get you done.
Now, if you went up the OTHER branch on the chart, you'll see that SCART is right before VGA. A SCART connection is/was the standard connection in Europe and is a lot better than anything we ever had. It carries straight RGB, so no conversion. Issue is... again, 15khz signal. As I mentioned if you were so lucky to have a monitor that would display 15khz you'd be done, that's because you could re-wire a SCART connector and be done.
But, since you probably don't, we're gonna have to do something about it.
Option #2: "Take a RGB signal and convert it to 31khz" - Which is really no fun, because an upscanner could cost $10,000! Now, pretty much the holy grail of gamers is the XRGB series. Which are hard as hell to find and run about $200-$300. The nice thing about an XRGB is it'll do anything you need it to do. You could hook up a Super Nintendo or a Genesis to it. You could hook up a PS1, PS2 or a Sega Saturn. The problem is the price and availability. I recently ordered a box from Ambery which cost $100. I don't have it yet so I don't know the quality yet.
Now should you do this... remember I said 'forget the DVD player?'. If you do this option, no DVD player over VGA for you! Because DVD play back is YUV only on the PS2.
At any rate, those are the options. You either take a 31khz YUV signal and make it RGB or you take a 15khz RGB signal and make it 31khz.
Have fun![/img]
You've brought up an interesting choice of console though - the PS2. The PS2 is notorious for being a pain in the ass. The first thing we need to address is the DVD Player. Without opening the console, you're not gonna get good quality over the DVD player... actually, let's back up. Second things first. Let's start with VGA.
VGA is the common term for all of the video signals transmitted over a standard 15 pin mini dsub connection for computers. VGA in and of itself is a picture that is 640x480 progressive at 31khz. Anything at a higher res such as 800x600 are technically their own beast (SVGA, XGA, etc.) but they still get called 'vga'.
A monitor capable of displaying a VGA picture is expecting 6 signals from your game console. Those signals are Red, Green, Blue, Ground, H-Sync and V-Sync. The red is the red in the picture, ditto blue, ditto green. The Ground is just the electrical ground needed to complete a circuit. H-Sync is the Horizontal Sync which is how fast the picture should refresh horizontally, V-Sync is how fast it should refresh vertically.
Pretty straight forward on what it wants. Now we're gonna get a little bit into why cheap VGA boxes are crap.
Most video game consoles are designed to output to a TV. TV's want a signal of 15khz. If you recall, a computer monitor wants a signal of 31khz. Most modern monitors do not accept 15khz. Now, if you get really lucky or do a little shopping and find a monitor that does 15khz - we stop here, because you'd be done. I could show you how to wire up the video signals directly to the monitor.
Odds are you're not that lucky, so you're gonna need to get that 15khz signal from your PS2 up to 31khz. This process is known as upscanning and can cost a fortune if you let it. Might cost $100 for a good upscanner that you can use with all your consoles.
I'm sure you've seen plenty of $20 and $40 vga boxes which take S-Video or Component and turn it into VGA. There's an issue with these boxes which is - VGA is not directly related to S-Video or Component.
This monsterous image is to show you something important. See how Component and VGA are on two different branches? That's because VGA is an RGB based signal (we talked about that earlier, yeah?) while Component is a YUV based signal.
YUV is a method of carrying image data where you first record how bright the image is (Luminance) and then record the color values using a predetermined formula (Chroma). In the case of Component the formula is blue - luminace and red - lumiance. Green is never actually carried, it's calculated by the display.
We'll start with the S-Video boxes. You display will look no better than S-Video on a good TV. The image doesn't improve it just changes. Component might have the image data you need for a good RGB picture, but you're looking at a somewhat precise calculation being done 31,000 times a second. Again, since you're jumping over that branch, money is an issue.
The plus side to Component is it's HD or Progressive scan, meaning you don't have to worry about getting the signal up to 31khz.
Option #1: "Take a 31khz signal and convert it to RGB" - A good quality YPbPr converter will get you done.
Now, if you went up the OTHER branch on the chart, you'll see that SCART is right before VGA. A SCART connection is/was the standard connection in Europe and is a lot better than anything we ever had. It carries straight RGB, so no conversion. Issue is... again, 15khz signal. As I mentioned if you were so lucky to have a monitor that would display 15khz you'd be done, that's because you could re-wire a SCART connector and be done.
But, since you probably don't, we're gonna have to do something about it.
Option #2: "Take a RGB signal and convert it to 31khz" - Which is really no fun, because an upscanner could cost $10,000! Now, pretty much the holy grail of gamers is the XRGB series. Which are hard as hell to find and run about $200-$300. The nice thing about an XRGB is it'll do anything you need it to do. You could hook up a Super Nintendo or a Genesis to it. You could hook up a PS1, PS2 or a Sega Saturn. The problem is the price and availability. I recently ordered a box from Ambery which cost $100. I don't have it yet so I don't know the quality yet.
Now should you do this... remember I said 'forget the DVD player?'. If you do this option, no DVD player over VGA for you! Because DVD play back is YUV only on the PS2.
At any rate, those are the options. You either take a 31khz YUV signal and make it RGB or you take a 15khz RGB signal and make it 31khz.
Have fun![/img]
-
Navin_Johnson
- 16-bit
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:31 am
- Location: Lansing, Michigan / Naperville/Chicago, IL
Absolutely amazing post NotBlaine, it was very informative and you saved me from going out and buying a crappy VGA box which I would of regretted. I don't mind paying a bit extra but the upscan converter seems a bit much, pretty sold on the XCM 1080p Mega-Cool VGA Box you mentioned earlier.
Would this be suitable to use in conjunction with the XCM 1080p Mega-Cool VGA Box ?
Again, thanks for all your help.
Would this be suitable to use in conjunction with the XCM 1080p Mega-Cool VGA Box ?
Again, thanks for all your help.
No problem. Glad I could help.
Yeah, those cables will work. I own a pair myself. A suggestion though is be gentle with it. My Wii fell off the table (luckily into a laundry basket!) and it literally pulled the connectors right out of the cable! That said, better it came out of the cable than out of the console!
Enjoy your box.
Yeah, those cables will work. I own a pair myself. A suggestion though is be gentle with it. My Wii fell off the table (luckily into a laundry basket!) and it literally pulled the connectors right out of the cable! That said, better it came out of the cable than out of the console!
Enjoy your box.
If you haven't bought a VGA box yet, my Ambery RGB to VGA Converter arrived today. Apparently it's a re-branded Cypress video box, but for much less. Actually, looking around on the internet, there's 3 or 4 companies with this exact same box with their brand on it.
The Ambrey was the cheapest I could find, $92. It's close in price to the XCM. I'm going to do a full review this weekend and run as many consoles through it as I can, but... so far, very nice.
It also supports YUV to RGB, comes with the cable and everything... so you can use your PS2 on it. If you're willing to do cub scout level soldering (6 wires) you can make a SCART to DSub connector and then use any console you wish with it.
Right now I have an arcade board hooked up to it, so far so good but I haven't tried a shooter or anything with a ton of movement yet. Radient Silvergun will be the real test. I can't recommend it until then, but it's been good enough thus far to mention it.
The Ambrey was the cheapest I could find, $92. It's close in price to the XCM. I'm going to do a full review this weekend and run as many consoles through it as I can, but... so far, very nice.
It also supports YUV to RGB, comes with the cable and everything... so you can use your PS2 on it. If you're willing to do cub scout level soldering (6 wires) you can make a SCART to DSub connector and then use any console you wish with it.
Right now I have an arcade board hooked up to it, so far so good but I haven't tried a shooter or anything with a ton of movement yet. Radient Silvergun will be the real test. I can't recommend it until then, but it's been good enough thus far to mention it.
I've already bought the XCM 1080p Mega-Cool VGA Box and the cables, should be arriving fairly soon. The reviewers on Play-Asia seem to give off a negative impression on this box but I'll take your word for it. I didn't realize that I need a female-to-female vga converter so I bought one of those too, I'll let you know how it goes.
I should of mentioned that I plan to connect a PS3 as well, until I have enough cash to buy a HDMI compatible monitor.
I should of mentioned that I plan to connect a PS3 as well, until I have enough cash to buy a HDMI compatible monitor.
My package came on Wednesday, I set it up and it's perfect! I really like it how it powers through USB, as you can connect the box up to the console itself.
The only gripe I really have is that it does not come with any cables. Another minor annoyance is that the sound is divided up between the different sources. What I mean by this is, is that I can't listen to music on my computer while playing a game on console mode as each source's sound is separate.
Thanks for all your help!
The only gripe I really have is that it does not come with any cables. Another minor annoyance is that the sound is divided up between the different sources. What I mean by this is, is that I can't listen to music on my computer while playing a game on console mode as each source's sound is separate.
Thanks for all your help!
NotBlaine, where are those graphics from?
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