Shmups

[Gamerforlife]

I was once like you, then I played Radiant Silvergun.

I can't really recommend sampling a whole bunch of shmups to get you into the genre. Shmups are hard, there's a lot of memorization needed. You have to train your muscles to react, not just your mind. If you just play one a little bit, you'll get stuck, frustrated and go on to another one and never really figure out what shmups are all about. It takes time to get into the zone.

What I recommend is burning a copy of Radiant Silvergun, turn the difficulty down to low, and the lives up to max. It's still hard, but you have enough lives that you can play for 20 mins or so without dying. That way, you're not constantly restarting and getting frustrated. The more you play, the more you'll learn. You'll find yourself escaping unscathed from spots that cost you many, many lives before. That's when it really gets fun.

That's really the fatal flaw of the genre, they're all so ridiculously, unnecessarily hard. They don't need to be, but for some reason most 2-d shmup developers just refuse to make any that have a reasonable level of difficulty. I dabble a little with shmups from time to time, but I've never really gotten into the genre that much. They feel more like work than fun.

I prefer rail shooters, since you can usually take more than one hit. What is it with 2-d shmups having you fly advanced combat ships, yet they go down with one hit? So stupid. Is it so much to ask to just allow a three hit life bar? Most 2-d shmups would still be tough even with that, but at least players would have a decent chance at survival.

Rail shooters have a much more reasonable level of difficulty. In fact, the challenge typically isn't in mere survival, but getting the best rank or score. I'll take rail shooters like Sin and Punishment, Rez, Panzer Dragoon Orta and Starfox 64 over ANY 2-d shmup ever made. You should try them

Having said that, Radiant Silvergun is not a bad shmup to try. The story mode keeps giving you continues and your weapons keep getting stronger. This all gets saved even when you get a Game Over, so you start the game each time a bit stronger than your last game.

[Doctor Fugue]

The reason why I said try lots of them is because you may spend a long time on one before realizing that there are better choices for you out there. There happen to be lots of people who love shooters but don't like Radiant Silvergun (not me, of course).

When I say try sampling lots, I don't mean just try it for a few minutes, or even 1 hour. I mean spend enough time to understand the scoring mechanic and get the feeling of the ship/hitbox, among other things. After trying out several completely different types of shooter, you will begin to see what things you want and what things you don't want. Then you can narrow it down to a few that you will spend the rest of your life playing!

As for shooters being too difficult...they are generally made for a specific audience who have already built up the skills. They are also made to stand the test of time, and they are something to which it is possible to spend your life perfecting. Some of us find that incredibly attractive and fun. They may turn off legions of dabbling gamers, but that doesn't mean the entire genre has a "fatal flaw"...rather that they just don't like the genre.

Just because I think RPG games are crap doesn't mean that I think the genre is broken. They just aren't for me!

[otaku]

Tons of them on sega systems and once you get into this genre (if you do) you'l be addicted, constantly improving and going for your high score

[gradualmeltdown]

I think Under Defeat on Dreamcast is a great start. It ramps up difficulty without making you feel like there is no hope. The graphics have a really nice "wow" effect especially considering the console. Beyond that I just like G-Rev as a developer. Anyone who refuses to give up on the Dreamcast hardware is ok with me

[Gamerforlife]

The reason why I said try lots of them is because you may spend a long time on one before realizing that there are better choices for you out there. There happen to be lots of people who love shooters but don't like Radiant Silvergun (not me, of course).

When I say try sampling lots, I don't mean just try it for a few minutes, or even 1 hour. I mean spend enough time to understand the scoring mechanic and get the feeling of the ship/hitbox, among other things. After trying out several completely different types of shooter, you will begin to see what things you want and what things you don't want. Then you can narrow it down to a few that you will spend the rest of your life playing!

As for shooters being too difficult...they are generally made for a specific audience who have already built up the skills. They are also made to stand the test of time, and they are something to which it is possible to spend your life perfecting. Some of us find that incredibly attractive and fun. They may turn off legions of dabbling gamers, but that doesn't mean the entire genre has a "fatal flaw"...rather that they just don't like the genre.

Just because I think RPG games are crap doesn't mean that I think the genre is broken. They just aren't for me!

True, true, but what I meant by "fatal flaw" was more the fact that the genre doesn't attract a larger audience because of the high level of difficulty. I mean other genres has somewheat evolved while shooters refuse to. This is great for the core audience, but not the genre as a whole in my opinion. I think games like the Red Star are a good way to make 2-d shooter elements a bit more accesible. I enjoyed doing S rank runs in that game where I would try and beat a level without taking a hit, but I liked that I didn't HAVE to be that perfect. Less stress

But I'm glad some gamers love the hard as hell 2-d shooters that take years and years to master. I guess personally, I'm just not looking for life long marriage material when I play a game. I like to play the field. LOL

We all have our genres we're hardcore about I guess. I like trying to master rail shooters or doing every challenge in some rpgs, but I don't usually have the patience or dedicaton to master most 2-d shooters. It seems like I play 2-d shooters more out of curiousity than anything, like when one gets a lot of acclaim I may try it out to see what all the fuss is about.

[Doctor Fugue]

It would be interesting to really discuss how much old genres have changed, and how it affects the core audience. We should all start writing "The Evolution Of..." articles for Racket. Shoot-em-ups for me have changed so much in the past 20 years, but that's because I am very familiar with them.

I've never had the pleasure of playing Red Star. Is it anything like Cannon Spike? I enjoy that quite a bit.

[Gamerforlife]

It would be interesting to really discuss how much old genres have changed, and how it affects the core audience. We should all start writing "The Evolution Of..." articles for Racket. Shoot-em-ups for me have changed so much in the past 20 years, but that's because I am very familiar with them.

I've never had the pleasure of playing Red Star. Is it anything like Cannon Spike? I enjoy that quite a bit.

I haven't played Cannon Spike, but I intend to at some point. People on this board have said it is similar. The game is equal parts melee combat and shmup gameplay

This video best exemplifies The Red Star's style of play. Take special note of the second sub boss fight, which is where the game totally becomes a shmup. This is what most boss fights in the game are like. I should point out again that while you CAN get hit during these fights, it will lower your ranking for the level, which means less money to spend on upgrades(and no bragging rights). I'm sure they did that for the more hardcore shmup fans. Also, each of the three character plays very differently so what you're seeing would be quite a bit different with another character. Camera angle shifts throughout the game too, so sometimes it ends up looking like a side scrolling beat'em up. There's tons of retro references in the game if you pay attention to boss names(references to Street Fighter, Ikaruga and Gradius)

This is on normal difficulty on one of the easier levels(relatively speaking), you unlock a harder EX mode when you beat the game. Unfortunately, this video follows the rather annoying trend these days of replacing the game's actual music with a custom sountrack made by the user. I hate, hate, HATE when people do that, especially since The Red Star has a great soundtrack. Still, you'll see what the gameplay is basically like

[REPO Man]

If you have a Dreamcast, they have a LOT of gr8 shmups.

If you have a DC that plays CD-Rs, check out:

* DreamAgain Arcade Vol.2, which has Trizeal, Chaos Field and Shikigami no Shiro 2. And it also has Ikaruga, which is hidden.
* DreamAgain Arcade Vol.3, which has Radirgy, Under Defeat, and Trigger Heart Excelica (which, along with Ikaruga, recently found it's way onto Xbox Live Arcade)

There is a Volume 1, but I can't find it. If anyone else has it, plz let me know.

Aside from those, the DC also has Giga Wing, Giga Wing 2, Mars Matrix, and a host of others.

There is also a NeoGeo CD emulator, and some torrent sites like Underground Gamer have pre-made game CDs.

Also, if you like Zaxxon, check out Viewpoint. It's out for the Arcade, Neo Geo CD, PlayStation, Sega Genesis, Sega Saturn, FM Towns Marty, and Sharp X68000. I suggest the PlayStation version, which has better graphics, though I didn't see any screens on MobyGames from any other version beside the Genny and PS versions.

[Doctor Fugue]

Thanks! That looks like a lot of fun...one of these days I'll get a PS2. I can't believe they cancelled the Xbox version!