So what have you guys been watching lately?

[Gamerforlife]

For me personally, yes. I can't say why exactly. It may simply be more to my tastes than Game of Thrones, but I think both shows are excellent.

I think I feel more invested in the characters on Nikita, while Game of Thrones focuses more so on political intrigue than characters and frankly, GoT has so many characters it gets hard to keep track sometimes. Plus, I like Nikita's faster pace. Game of Thrones just likes to take its time moving through a story, not that there is anything wrong with that. That's not really a criticism, but I like how recent Nikita episodes always have something major happen. Nikita is one of the few shows on tv that never seems to have filler episodes. The writers like to just get to the point, get to the conflict, get to the resolution, get to the climax. Never a wasted scene. Plus, the action quotient is high on Nikita. Again, I'm not saying a show has to have constant action, but Nikita does action so well it's hard not to appreciate it.

They're both great, just different types of shows and Nikita appeals to me a bit more.

Hmm, I may have to see if there is a way for me to stream it.

It starts to get really good near the end of season 1 and season 2 has been pretty much great all around with few weak moments. With many shows on TV settling on formulaic, procedure or pointless filler episodes, Nikita has had a forward momentum that I wish a lot more shows on TV would have. Compare it to a show like Grimm where the main plot just slowly moves forward like it's on the back of a turtle or a show like Supernatural that has way too many bad gimmick episodes or silly humor episodes. I don't get that sense of waiting for the good episodes with Nikita like I get with so many other shows, where half of the season is worthless crap with only a few pivotal episodes that actually matter. Nikita is a shining example of how I want my TV shows to be and yet nobody talks about it.

[Luke]

missing out on?

This week's ZIPLINING episode of South Park was pretty great. And if you've ever been ziplining, it's 100% spot on.

[Menegrothx]

You still like South Park? It seems most everyone I see online who watches the show thinks this latest season hasn't been up to par.

You are hanging out with the wrong people online then.

The "meme" episode fell flat on me, but this season has been solid. "Cash for Gold" nearly had me in tears, but I don't watch the show only for laughs. Matt and Trey's social commentary has almost always been 100% dead on, and I always look forward to see what topic they'll take on next. They have captured the zeitgeist of my generation, and have done so with relative ease.

I think that the show has gotten too preachy and that it isnt fun anymore. I mean, the way they talk about relevant issues is brilliant and all, but the actually funny moments have become increasingly rare within the last few seasons. The old seasons bombed the viewer with a constant stream of jokes, and I like that kind of humor. It doesnt have to be plot related always. Movies like Naked Gun and Top Shots and shows like Duckman and Bottom are great examples of this. And you dont have to laugh out loud at all jokes they make, but they they should upkeep a constant stream of humor if you know what I mean. I dont laugh out loud when I watch Duckman, but I am constantly amazed by how witty and clever the dialogue in that show is. You dont even notice it at times. The interval between jokes is a lot bigger nowadays and there is a lot less/zero random/silly humor. And no, I do not mean Family Guy flashbacks when I use the word "random humor".

The retarded sasquatch guy in the easter episode was a bad way to make a point in my opinnion. It was almost like bullying. "Hey look at this guy he is so retarded! You dont wanna be like him do you? Lets all laugh at him!" Rather than criticizing the actual flaws of the ideas he supports, they just made fun of the actual person.
In the older South Park episodes they used to make fun of different groups in a more subtle and intelligent way that was less judgemental/bullyish in my opnnion. It was the same thing with Duckman and other similiar cartoons. They use this same technique in GTA games if you listen to the radio shows. People talk in an exaggrated manner about the actual consequences of their ideologies, constantly contradict themselves etc. I will give you an example of this straight ouf of GTA Vice City
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/561641-grand ... faqs/20529
http://gta.wikia.com/Pressing_Issues There is a short description of each person in that radio show

To my right, heh, to everyone's right in fact, we have
congressman Alex Shrub; the youngest state congressman to ever be
elected by Vice City and now a respected man in the capital. Mr. Shrub
got elected because he has great hair and says things that make you nod
your head. His campaign appealed to the wealthy because he set all of
us at ease by confirming, "It's okay to be rich, as long as you say you
care about the children." Mr. Shrub, welcome!

Alex: That's not entirely true, Maurice. My campaign also appealed to
the poor... who were too stupid to understand what I'm saying, so I held
up pretty pictures and then I gave out candy bars to appeal to their
most base insticts. Thanks Maurice. I'm glad to be given this
opportunity to set the record straight.

You, Shrub! You
yellow-bellied, tie-wearing, bribe-takin' hypocrit! What have you done
for Vice City up there in Washington?

Alex: I've ensured important tax breaks for gun retailers, real estate
developers, and I've cut the cost of policing, saving the city 2%, or 25
cents per household, over a six year period.

Callum: At the expense of society. Think of the little people. Poor
people have no voice in this city. Every time I find a park to meditate
in, someone brings in a bulldozer and builds condos. The madness must
stop.

Alex: So you suggest we just stop making babies? People need a place to
park their boat and trailer and to put their swimming pool. You're
beginning to sound red, and by that I mean you prefer a hammer and
sickle over a hamburger.

Callum: I'm not little. I'm 5'5". It's time for corporations and all
of capitalism to step aside for naturalism. You're not saving this
planet, you're spending it. Your credit is no good here. We can't
afford to loan you anymore of our nature. Those are our trees. I only
wish I could be around a little longer to enjoy it. I feel so old.
Someone must take my legacy. I must train a little me!

Maurice: How old are you?

Callum: I'm 23, but I feel much older, and wiser. I know everything.
I've seen a lot of the world.

Alex: What does the rest of the world have to tell us about how to do
things? Build more trains? Have people elect their leader rather than
an elite electoral college? Ride a bike to work like a girl scout or a
clown with dietary concerns? No thanks, Vladmire.

John: I agree with that. People from other countries are good for
nothing, that's why we have to keep teachin' them a lesson. I tell you
what makes a real man. A truck to pull stuff and a couch to think on.

Callum: I'll tell you. Speaking as a sensualist, and by this I mean a
very narrow-minded, incentered (?) man of peace... Travel. I recently
went to Europe. I think everyone should see it for a week. You really
see what's wrong with this country when you visit a European utopia.
Things like a journey, public transportation, health care, leather
shorts, mustaches. When I went to Belize, I helped some villagers clear
some land for an environmentally-friendly coal mine. We've all got to
make some sacrifices if we're going to get anywhere. My dad gave me the
money to set up an exciting trust there.

Maurice: But how does that help the people in Vice City from worrying
about whether they are going to get robbed? What drives a man to just
take?

Callum: What we need are more after-school sports like choir or drama,
so people can learn to express themselves properly, by singing or
pretending to be a tree. Have you ever heard a whale sing? It's a
lonely form of beauty and some very ancient wisdom. Helping people to
help themselves with drama and choir and flowers and my dad's money.

Alex: Listen Trust Fund Tommy, your ideas are pathetic. It's no wonder
that mankind has woken up one day to find me in charge, amigo.

Maurice: Mr. Shrub, you got elected on a campaign promising to reduce
taxes to zero... But under your stewardship, we've seen taxes go up by
20% and services decline!

Alex: No on is interested in your statistics, Chavez. Let me tell you
something pal, I'm better than that. I will not- I shall not, I cannot
stoop to your level. They assured me that this was a show that
understood politics, where we can debate mano-a-mano, and I find myself
having statistics hurled at me like so much stale confetti. We cannot
boil people down to numbers!

Alex: Keep your "hoes" and "seeds" to yourself. We don't need gun
control. If you read the Constitution, it's a sacred document that
should not be changed. Under our constitution women couldn't vote, but
the liberals come in crying crocodile tears. We need to get scare-
mongers and non-believers, men like you Chavez, under control. I've got
a good mind to get your funding removed.

Maurice: We don't get any funding.

Alex: Exactly. But... Good! Heh, you won't see a penny out of me!
You've got to stop spreading these lies or I'll whip you myself and I'm
not afraid. The Constitution inserts a man's right to bear arms, and...
and arm bears, and all points in between. Who ever heard of a gun... or
a bear causing problems? This is all cockypop, or... whatever that word
is. It keeps the place safe. Trouble is caused by unemployment, and
unemployment comes from poor, economic performance and lazy people. If
you had job, would you steal a car? Of course not! ...And if you had a
high-rise condo, a mistress, uh... and a seat on the board, would you
run around graffitiing your name all over town and making a nuisance of
yourself, spinning on your back, and poppin' and lockin' and... Not a
hope. It's simple. If you don't have a job, starve. Get out of my
constituency by force if necessary, and starve.

Maurice: That's quite simple. Are you really saying that?

Alex: Of course I am. Vice City is a growing city, and of course there
are going to be some growing pains. Well, what I tell people is this:
Gather up your life savings, buy yourself a piece of swamp, drain it,
and get rid of the damn wildlife, then apply for planning permission.
Pretty soon, you can have your own retirement community or resort
destination holiday place. You can start making money out of the boom,
the... Shrub-inspired boom... And enjoy the kind of things sensible
people have: Personal bodyguards, massive fences, and a bigger
collection of guns than the other guy. It stands the reason.

John: No no no no! Keep them out of here! We DO NOT want anymore old
folks! If there are any old people listening, go back to your homes!
Florida does not want you! Please, die somewhere else! What's wrong
with Nevada or Kansas? We want a river! We need a river! The freedom
river.

Maurice: ...And what about the other crimes? It seems car crime,
fashion crime, drugs, everything is on the rise.

Callum: Absolutely, of course it is! When I was in Uganda people were
poor, but they were happy. The more you have, the less you have.
That's kind of what I'm all about. Their satisfaction in spendning all
day weaving a basket, rather than just buying one at the store. At one
point in Uganda, I saw a great lake of sand and a massive speaking dog.
It was a dog of love, not of hate. It was a spirit journey.

Alex: Gangs are a myth put out by the liberal elite to patronize and
demean the working man. I mean, what kind of right-minded youth from a
poor background is going to spend his time stealing things and posing in
silly clothes, when he could be getting ahead with a minimum wage job
and making his parent proud? The dream of America is to live in a
duplex and share a yard. Why... Why would anyone want to threaten that
great future? Answer me that and I'll show you a green dog.

Callum: ...And, Speaking for the Underdog, the foundation I set up for
my trust fund... We believe gangs are a valid expression of a people's
identity. A grouping... A community within a community. Gangs are a
way to be noticed in the boxy suburbs. You scream out, rather than
urinate at the edge of your camp like a proud native. We spray paint
our names on the walls at the mall to ward off predators.

Maurice: ...And that's supposed to terrify people?

Callum: No, no! We believe passionately in non-violent solutions to
life's problems. Gangs have to learn to love... To be inclusionary.
We'd award badges to good gangs, and give bad gangs a silly hat to wear.
It would give people something to feel a part of. Kill with kindness,
not a garden tool.

Maurice: Yes, but what about the guy getting beaten up on the street...
or the man having his motorcycle stolen? What about him?

Callum: ...Or her! Some of the best bikers are really women. Anyone
can join our group. This is about poor people getting together.

Maurice: ...But your father owns half of Florida. How are you part of
the working class?

Callum: Like I said, possessions are not important at all. I'll pick up
a hitchhiker in my convertible any day. The other day, I picked up a
young woman and we discussed a non-violent solution to war. We called
it peace.

Alex: Your father is a great man. He's done more for the arms trade in
this state than anyone else, myself included, and you shame him with
this socialist jiggery-pokery-hoot-nanny. America needs hope, not songs
or are supposed to send food to the poor. Songs will get you nowhere.
This country needs something to aim for, like being rich and laughing at
poor people... Or, being in government and laughing at the electorate.

[Luke]

I think that the show has gotten too preachy and that it isnt fun anymore.

Did you watch the Ziplining episode?

[Menegrothx]

Did you watch the Ziplining episode?

So far it was the funniest episode in this season, but thats not saying much. It wasnt bad. Overall I think that South Park's humor relies too much on getting different references these days, a bit like Family Guy. Except in South Park the whole episode is just one big reference, while Family Guy makes constant references to TV shows, commercials etc that are completely irrelevant storyline wise. In a way I think South Park can be a bit too relevant at times - its some times impossible for a foreigner to understand what they are making fun of unless you actively read American news etc.

[Luke]

Did you watch the Ziplining episode?

So far it was the funniest episode in this season, but thats not saying much. <snip> Overall I think that South Park's humor relies too much on getting different references these days, a bit like Family Guy. <snip> In a way I think South Park can be a bit too relevant at times....

I think CASH FOR GOLD is by far the highlight of this season but ZIPLINING did have me laughing out loud several times in a twenty minute time frame, which I always appreciate.

Our disconnect is probably that I enjoy seeing Matt and Trey make points in their shows, as they always have since day one. Tackling religion, scientology (fuck you spell check, I'm not capitalizing that word), racism, mormons, aids, and with such tact is a triumph in my eyes. I don't always agree with them, but I always "get" their stance.

I'm not going to use the "well if they've been on for 16 years, that has to show that South Park is awesome". They've had some, well, not too good seasons but the writing has been much better lately. Not season three good, but still funny.

And it has to stay relevant, most shows are written in two weeks. Without that, we wouldn't have "Jackin it in San Diego" which still makes me laugh even if I type the words "jackin in San Diego".

[Menegrothx]

I think CASH FOR GOLD is by far the highlight of this season

Seriously? I didnt find it funny at all. The only things in that whole episode I found even remotely amusing was the Taco Bell scene and when they were in India and Stan asked from one of the children "dont you know how much suffering you are causing?"

Our disconnect is probably that I enjoy seeing Matt and Trey make points in their shows, as they always have since day one. .

I dont mind the show making a point. It always has, thats why its great. And I really appreciate how they can make an episode with such a short timeline. But I'll give an example of what I mean when I say that the show is too preachy and too relevant.

In the olden days the episodes were built around the concept of making a fun show that doesnt take itself too seriously. There was all kinds of humor and the episodes were more chaotic, but there was always some kind of underlying theme on each episode and it delivered a message. It had jokes making fun of corporations, religions, political groups and social issues in that GTA-esque exaggerated but trutful manner - a politican wont ever publicly say something like this

My campaign also appealed to the poor... who were too stupid to understand what I'm saying, so I held up pretty pictures and then I gave out candy bars to appeal to their most base instict

but that is exactly what he/she will do. You dont have to preach the message and underestimate the viewers intelligence, you can deliver a point across in a less serious way like that and still make just as big impact.

The cash for gold episode was completely based on the whole issue of people selling overpriced junk to senile people for profit. It criticzed the home shopping networks in a very direct and serious way. The "you should kill yourself" calls from Stan and the elderly were their way of saying "these guys are assholes, you should hate them too because we hate them". To me that scene wasn't fun, it felt awkward and embarrassing to watch that. The whole episode felt more like an awareness-campaign than satire.
So in my opinnion the show has shifted from that old model to "lets pick one relevant issue and center the whole episode around it and try to make a few jokes about it if we can". So the show does not attempt to make the viewer laugh in every way possible anymore, it now actively tackles current time events and issues and all jokes are strictly plot-related.

And it has to stay relevant, most shows are written in two weeks. Without that, we wouldn't have "Jackin it in San Diego" which still makes me laugh even if I type the words "jackin in San Diego".

Like I said, I find it TOO relevant because the things that the show parodies are current time events in America, things that outsiders (read: people who arent American) dont have a clue about unless its something big that intrests news stations internationally, like the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.
And because of that, people wont find these episodes very funny in 2020 or 2030 because humor that is strictly based on current time events often has an expiration day. If you watch an episode of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Have_I_Got_News_for_You from 2005, you most likely dont find most of the jokes funny, unless you lived in England back in 2005 and followed the news carefully. Even if you did, you probably dont remember most of that stuff anymore. Its only funny if news that are being ridiculed happened only recently and are still in the collective memory of people.

[Gamerforlife]

scientology (fuck you spell check, I'm not capitalizing that word),

That right there made me laugh my ass off

I think a lot of what Menegrothx is saying is really the basic flaw of topical comedy. South Park really has become equal parts social commentary and comedy and I think I really just enjoy straight up comedy minus the social commentary these days. I used to love seeing South Park satirize whatever was happening in current events as it kind of made me feel smart for watching it, but I don't know. I sort of just don't care anymore. Now and days I just like comedy for the sake of comedy. I don't need everything I watch to be clever and winking at you with all the social references.

A show like Futurama can satirize current events, but usually every episode has comedy that still works even if you don't get the references. I think Futurama is just better than South Park as a result, it's comedy on multiple levels, unlike South Park. I guess it's more diverse in a sense. Futurama comes at your funny bone in different ways and doesn't even have to rely on topical stuff to be funny.

Of course, South Park probably is held back by its short episode creation times and that hardcore schedule the show has to stick too, but that's by their own choice. I guess you have to respect the show's ability to immediately satirize anything in current events faster than any show on TV beside late night talk shows as a result of that schedule

[s1mplehumar]

Battlestar Galactica. I can't get enough!

I know. I know. Soooooooo late to the partayy.

[Menegrothx]

I cant stress this enough btw, watch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duckman if you havent seen it and you like animated shows like Futurama and South Park.
The first three seasons are damn brilliant. It has amazingly well written witty comedy and all sorts of satire but it doesnt really try to be topical and it has a lot of normal crude humor. Still some episodes make a short statement in the end, a bit like old South Park episodes with those I've learned something today monologues.
And here is a word about comedy from Duckman himself...


Most Duckman episodes have been uploaded to youtube so you can watch it with out having to download it for free.

Has any one seen Clerks: The Animated Series btw? It was damn hilarious, too bad it only lasted for 6 episodes