Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' wait.

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Gamerforlife
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by Gamerforlife »

MrPopo wrote:
Gamerforlife wrote:1)Is the game still heavily biased towards Renegade players? Mass Effect 2 constantly forces Renegade points onto you even if you try and play as a full Paragon, yet it doesn't seem to ever force paragon points onto you. Nice double standard there. Bioware seems to love "bad guy" Shepherd. It's even what the games default to if you don't import.
No, it seems more biased towards paragon, if anything. I mean, with the galaxy facing extinction some of the renegade choices require you to be a supreme asshole. That said, they've changed the reputation system slightly. Now there are three kinds of points you can get. Paragon, renegade, and neutral. Neutral points increase both sides but keep the ratio the same. So if you were at 10 renegade points and 5 paragon points and received 3 neutral points you would end up with 12 renegade and 6 paragon. They give neutral points for most mission completion and only give out renegade and paragon for when you go out of your way to be nice/mean.
2)Are there any real consequences for going into ME 3 with more than one romance active? I never could decide between Jack and Liara and discovered that you can actually romance them both and your Mass Effect 2 import file will even reflect that. I know I'll probably have to pick one in ME 3, which is fine, but I'm curious as to whether it creates any major conflict. I love a good triangle, it's such an oft used writing trick in a lot of tv.
There are consequences, but not major ones. You'll get called out fairly early on about your romancing someone else by your ME1 romance, and you have the option to go with ME1 or to just be friends. Then your ME2 romance will have some dialog about picking up the romance again (as you've been incommunicado for 6 months) if you turned down your ME1 romance. That gives you the chance to turn down your ME2 romance in favor of one of the new ME3 romances.
Interesting, I guess it's nice that they give you lots of options, though I can see how some people would probably prefer seeing more conflict. I'm curious about the new romances. I was so dead set on Liara after ME 1, but I really felt for Jack after I learned about her messed up past. I wonder if some new ME 3 person will make me drop both girls for her instead lol.

The alignment system sounds better, so that's good. I really didn't get that far in ME 3 before I chose to start up ME 2 to again, so that's why I'm asking questions. Thanks
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by ATARI800XLfan »

Gamerforlife wrote:
MrPopo wrote:
Gamerforlife wrote:1)Is the game still heavily biased towards Renegade players? Mass Effect 2 constantly forces Renegade points onto you even if you try and play as a full Paragon, yet it doesn't seem to ever force paragon points onto you. Nice double standard there. Bioware seems to love "bad guy" Shepherd. It's even what the games default to if you don't import.
No, it seems more biased towards paragon, if anything. I mean, with the galaxy facing extinction some of the renegade choices require you to be a supreme asshole. That said, they've changed the reputation system slightly. Now there are three kinds of points you can get. Paragon, renegade, and neutral. Neutral points increase both sides but keep the ratio the same. So if you were at 10 renegade points and 5 paragon points and received 3 neutral points you would end up with 12 renegade and 6 paragon. They give neutral points for most mission completion and only give out renegade and paragon for when you go out of your way to be nice/mean.
2)Are there any real consequences for going into ME 3 with more than one romance active? I never could decide between Jack and Liara and discovered that you can actually romance them both and your Mass Effect 2 import file will even reflect that. I know I'll probably have to pick one in ME 3, which is fine, but I'm curious as to whether it creates any major conflict. I love a good triangle, it's such an oft used writing trick in a lot of tv.
There are consequences, but not major ones. You'll get called out fairly early on about your romancing someone else by your ME1 romance, and you have the option to go with ME1 or to just be friends. Then your ME2 romance will have some dialog about picking up the romance again (as you've been incommunicado for 6 months) if you turned down your ME1 romance. That gives you the chance to turn down your ME2 romance in favor of one of the new ME3 romances.
Interesting, I guess it's nice that they give you lots of options, though I can see how some people would probably prefer seeing more conflict. I'm curious about the new romances. I was so dead set on Liara after ME 1, but I really felt for Jack after I learned about her messed up past. I wonder if some new ME 3 person will make me drop both girls for her instead lol.

The alignment system sounds better, so that's good. I really didn't get that far in ME 3 before I chose to start up ME 2 to again, so that's why I'm asking questions. Thanks
The game has defiantly seen some improvements since number 2, which makes the ending stick out even more, just as a warning be prepared for disappointment when you get there. As for people I have seen complaining saying fans should not be mad about the ending when the rest of the game was good, which it is. That is not totally true. When it is the end of a trilogy you expect it to be well written and make sense, it is the end. Something they did not do with this ending. It would like if they ended Harry Potter with the scene of them on the bridge, having most of the blanks die or bug out and saying all magic must be destroyed.



http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/aj/ ... e3s-ending
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by Key-Glyph »

You guys are all scaring me about the ending. I haven't been reading too many spoilers, but I get the fact that there are really only three scenarios at the finale when it comes down to it. Disappointing, but I'm hoping it won't ruin the entire experience for me like it did for some of you.

I've been a spectator for our household's first run-through and so far I've been pretty thrilled, which is exciting considering how skeptical I was. The stories and characters are way more nuanced here than in ME2 (which has officially cemented its position as my least favorite of the series by leaps and bounds). I feel like ME3 is recapturing the magic of the original. I've gotten choked up a bunch of times, and I love that! It feels a bit like seeing The Return of the King in theaters for the first time, and goodness knows I was so into that back in the day.
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by Xeogred »

Since Bioware has pretty much come out and said the ending is what it is, yeah I think it just straight up sucks. Nothing good about it, but it didn't ruin the whole journey for me. I think this game is better than ME2 in every regard. Multiplayer is amazing, and I'm running through Insanity now.

The ending is a huge fumble, but it was still a good purchase to me.
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by ATARI800XLfan »

Xeogred wrote:Since Bioware has pretty much come out and said the ending is what it is, yeah I think it just straight up sucks. Nothing good about it, but it didn't ruin the whole journey for me. I think this game is better than ME2 in every regard. Multiplayer is amazing, and I'm running through Insanity now.

The ending is a huge fumble, but it was still a good purchase to me.
agreed, it was still a excellent game, ending just ruined some of the re-playability of the series in my opinion. Besides the fact the tracking of side missions in the journal is handled worse then in the last game.
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by ATARI800XLfan »

Bioware poll asking people what they would want in a DLC ending, for those that want to vote.

http://social.bioware.com/polls.php?use ... earch=&p=1
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by MrPopo »

ATARI800XLfan wrote:Bioware poll asking people what they would want in a DLC ending, for those that want to vote.

http://social.bioware.com/polls.php?use ... earch=&p=1
Note: This is not an official Bioware poll. This is a poll conducted on their website by a regular user.
Blizzard Entertainment Software Developer - All comments and views are my own and not representative of the company.
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by ATARI800XLfan »

looks like Bioware is thinking of adding some changes to the ending including content initiatives to answer the questions left by the controversial Mass Effect 3 ending.


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012- ... -questions
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by ATARI800XLfan »

Seeing as Bioware is now asking people for there opinions on what needs fixed with the ending this is what I think.

Below are quotes that were made by BioWare before the game was released. As such, they represent a spoken/written promise by you to your customers regarding Mass Effect 3. Artistic choices are wonderful and should be allowed, except when you are producing commissioned art where you promised it would contain certain things.

If a painter has agreed to paint a wilderness scene for me, and I have paid them based on that promise, are you saying they have the right to give me a painting of a cityscape instead, and that I simply have to accept it because their "artistic integrity" is at stake? I didn't think so. So while your argument for artistic choices is understandable, unfortunately the moment you began making promises to your consumers you became bound to them. Art has been changed before based on public reactions. At the moment, a number of pundits for Bioware are making the argument that even if the fans disapprove of the ME3 endings, it shouldn’t matter because this is art and wholly within the purview of the artist’s entitlement to create as he/she sees fit. In short, the argument is no matter how disagreeable the work may be, the artist is entitled to paint the picture they want. I respectfully disagree.

The critical flaw of this position is that it simply ignores art’s interaction in the marketplace. To wit, there are three general “types” of artists in relation to that marketplace.

First, there is the altruist. The man or woman who creates solely for themselves. Perhaps they sell their art, perhaps not. They may dabble in the marketplace, but simply don’t concern themselves with making money. Instead, they do art the way they want and if people approve, great. If not, that’s ok too. These are the most “entitled” artists since they really aren’t selling a product, they do it for the love of their medium. They may have dreams of financial success, but they rarely achieve it since their vision is paramount. And they are quite ok with that btw.

Second, we have the mainstream artist. They have creative control to a great degree, but they are in the marketplace and tailor their work to the populous genre. They will paint in the style of the day (baroque, renaissance, etc). They display their works and people decide if they like the artist’s interpretation of the genre. If the masses approve, the artist makes money. Otherwise, no sale. They have less artistic “entitlement” as they must tailor there interpretations to the style sought by the marketplace. Thomas Kinkade slots nicely in here.

The final individual is the commissioned artist. This person has a known style, but they are paid in advance for their work by a patron. Said patron is, in effect, buying the work, sight unseen, but with an understanding they will like what the artist does. It is a purchase of faith and the artist knows the final work will have to pass muster if they want further commissions. Given, in effect, that the artist is not only being paid for their finished product, but for their time and skills to be used to create a project pleasing to their patron, this is the least entitled artist. Clear historical examples of this can be seen in portrait galleries around the world wherein individuals are clearly given “glamour shot” makeovers from known historical descriptions.

Bioware, falls squarely into this last category. When a game markets pre-orders, releases videos and interviews describing their art in a certain fashion, they solicit patrons and must accept they are taking money to paint a portrait for those patrons. Artistic entitlement is simply curtailed.

I am squarely in the came of those that dislike the endings for the multitude of reasons Conversely, I understand others approve of the endings. For my part, will I ever purchase another bioware game? Perhaps. Will I treat them from this point forward as a second category “mainstream” artist? Absolutely. I will inspect their work before I buy. This will ultimately cost me less (ME3 is already significantly less expensive in several markets) with an understanding that the artist can feel more entitled to create what they want and I can feel more entitled to reject their work.

Simply put, artistic entitlement isn’t absolute in the marketplace. Ignore your patrons, and they become customers. Ignore your customers and you become an altruist who in most cases does something else to make a living to supplement complete artistic freedom.

So here are some of the promises that BioWare made, and that many feel you need to correct in order to fix this problem. I was contemplating going through and making certain sections bold, but then I realized that I would need to do that for nearly every part of every quote. Instead, I will just let them stand and hope you guys do the right thing.

We want to believe in you again, BioWare. Please do the right thing and don't let us down.

Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.”


Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/02/28/mass- ... c-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”


Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.financialpost.com/2012/ ... audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people”


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/33 ... ng-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.”


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazine.co.uk/interview/ ... t-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012- ... ople-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending.
BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than
answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised.

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make”


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/ ... ect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/02/casey ... interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”

Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/ ... ageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1027650/ma ... oware.html

Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike Gamble.


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer.com/features/122998 ... tails.html

"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a totally different way of playing"


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst.com/2012/03/casey- ... e-stories/

“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/33 ... od/?page=2

“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.”


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012- ... ople-angry
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Re: Less then 66 days until Mass Effect 3 comes out, cant' w

Post by ATARI800XLfan »

ending comparison Mass Effect 2 to 3


= awesome.
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