Metal Gear Solid 4 Wins

[Mozgus]

A little late on the take here but -

It's a matter of personal interpretation but count me in the camp that does not believe in a "perfect" score. I think this stems from the common phrase "perfect 10." I know 1UP and EGM have said many times they don't consider a 10 to be perfect - just that they think this particular game is "tops" for them, whatever that may be. I personally think the 1-10 scale is shit and think either a letter grade (which 1UP uses now) or stars are much better. No one ever gripes about a "perfect" five star movie review. Actually, the very best reviews have no scale of any kind. My favorite pro reviewers now are the guys who write the Opposable Thumbs blog at Ars Technica. I love their MGS4 review that was posted today because they took Kojima to task for a number of things despite some true greatness in there. I would be interested to see what you guys who have finished the game think of the Ars review. (I don't have a PS3.)

Thought I disagree with Moz about the meaning of 10, I totally agree that user reviews are much more accurate almost every time.

EDIT: Here's that review: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/games/me ... solid4.ars

The difference between a 5 star rating and a 10.0/10 rating is that 10.0 allows for MUCH more fine score measurement. 10.0 means that the game is BETTER then 99% positive. Which is insane. Even the tiniest flaw should knock it down a percent. Many flaws have been addressed, but for some reason they just choose to ignore flaws for hyped up games. Right off the bat, many people are warning that MGS4 is not worth the price if you don't know the series head to toe to start with. I consider that a fucking HUGE flaw, and a violation of one of the most general rules of sequel design, not only in video games, but in movies and novels as well. When you create a game that cant stand on it's own two legs without using prior entries as crutches, you have failed at some point. Sorry. Go back to the fucking drawing board.

This is kind of similar to why I hate most anime. The extreme reliance on consecutive order. I absolutely loved Cowboy Bebop because I was able to watch that show entirely out of order and still totally understand what was happening. That is brilliant design. There was still an element of chronological storytelling going on in minor ways that the die hard fans could appreciate, but it not only didn't harm my experience; I didn't even notice it.

[Doctor Fugue]

Right off the bat, many people are warning that MGS4 is not worth the price if you don't know the series head to toe to start with. I consider that a fucking HUGE flaw, and a violation of one of the most general rules of sequel design, not only in video games, but in movies and novels as well. When you create a game that cant stand on it's own two legs without using prior entries as crutches, you have failed at some point. Sorry. Go back to the fucking drawing board.

This is kind of similar to why I hate most anime. The extreme reliance on consecutive order. I absolutely loved Cowboy Bebop because I was able to watch that show entirely out of order and still totally understand what was happening. That is brilliant design. There was still an element of chronological storytelling going on in minor ways that the die hard fans could appreciate, but it not only didn't harm my experience; I didn't even notice it.

I don't know anything about Metal Gear Solid, but your hatred for serialized stuff makes me want to comment. Did you hate the Lord of the Rings books? Do you consider them a failure because each one of the six (or three, depends who you ask) cannot possibly exist on its own?

And hating most anime for being ordered or serialized? That's what I love most about it. They can build up such an immense mythology and create such stunning journeys for the characters (if done well) that simply is not possible otherwise. Cowboy Bebop indeed did an impressive job of keeping the stories separate yet still grow with the characters. But shows like Ergo Proxy or Fate/Stay Night or Death Note DO require some time investment by the audience, and they deliver the goods: a long, exciting, unbreakable story.

Serialized things are great because they are generally conceived with a beginning and an end (others sputter endlessly after their original ending like DBZ). Many episodic shows just get way too repetitive. And movies are generally just too short to really give a great adventure AND character development. A perfect example is Lost, which could never exist if it weren't for serialized storytelling.

I'm not saying you're wrong about hating serialization, I just wanted to defend it a bit because some of us think it is a great way to tell a story.

[Mozgus]

I don't know anything about Metal Gear Solid, but your hatred for serialized stuff makes me want to comment. Did you hate the Lord of the Rings books? Do you consider them a failure because each one of the six (or three, depends who you ask) cannot possibly exist on its own?

And hating most anime for being ordered or serialized? That's what I love most about it. They can build up such an immense mythology and create such stunning journeys for the characters (if done well) that simply is not possible otherwise. Cowboy Bebop indeed did an impressive job of keeping the stories separate yet still grow with the characters. But shows like Ergo Proxy or Fate/Stay Night or Death Note DO require some time investment by the audience, and they deliver the goods: a long, exciting, unbreakable story.

Serialized things are great because they are generally conceived with a beginning and an end (others sputter endlessly after their original ending like DBZ). Many episodic shows just get way too repetitive. And movies are generally just too short to really give a great adventure AND character development. A perfect example is Lost, which could never exist if it weren't for serialized storytelling.

I'm not saying you're wrong about hating serialization, I just wanted to defend it a bit because some of us think it is a great way to tell a story.

Weird how I like DBZ but hate other shows that follow that formula, huh? I guess in some weird way, DBZ episodes still do stand on their own, if only because the character repeat themselves so damn much. Yes I've tried Ergo Proxy and Death Note and I absolutely hated both of them. I don't see any charm in them. I just see generic copy-cat anime. I don't know why the dialog in anime has still not evolved past the days of monotonous Speed Racer still-frame, overly serious chit chats. Blah blah blah, these characters just refuse to shut up. I can't tolerate it anymore. Again, why do I tolerate it when DBZ does it? I have no idea...

Oh and no, I did not read the LOTR books, but really I don't read any books. I know that the movies bored the piss out of me.

[RadarScope1]

Yep - it's that fine measurement that tends to disagree with me. Who in the hell can say something 3 or 5 percent "better" than something else?

[Lodestar]

Imagine how much longer the cutscenes would have been if Kojima had to explain everything else that happened in the other games for new players. For a series as expansive as Metal Gear is, that's a hell of a lot of events and story elements to cover.

Honestly, people who complain about not knowing what's going on can honestly shut up. If they're willing to start a series from the FOURTH console installment (not counting the other games in the series), they basically throw out ANY right to complain about being left in the dark. That's their fault.

However, most people don't do this, only people who buy into hype and just want to play the game to shoot stuff - but I usually don't see them complaining about not knowing what's happening. I assume those people just skip through the scenes, anyway.

In the end, it's not like this game was meant for new fans since it was meant to tie up loose ends from the previous installments.

[RyaNtheSlayA]

Imagine how much longer the cutscenes would have been if Kojima had to explain everything else that happened in the other games for new players. For a series as expansive as Metal Gear is, that's a hell of a lot of events and story elements to cover.

Honestly, people who complain about not knowing what's going on can honestly shut up. If they're willing to start a series from the FOURTH console installment (not counting the other games in the series), they basically throw out ANY right to complain about being left in the dark. That's their fault.

However, most people don't do this, only people who buy into hype and just want to play the game to shoot stuff - but I usually don't see them complaining about not knowing what's happening. I assume those people just skip through the scenes, anyway.

In the end, it's not like this game was meant for new fans since it was meant to tie up loose ends from the previous installments.

they did take the time to do that, its metal gear database, its a free download off of PSN

[Lodestar]

Well, hah, there you go. Now there's absolutely no reason for anyone to complain about that.

[Randy_Marsh]

Perfection is an impossibility. And the fact anyone would buy a game because it scored a perfect causes me to lose all respect for that person's judgement in video games.

i buy any game ign gives a 10. uh oh i think you just lost all respect for my judgment. o noes!!

[Mozgus]

i buy any game ign gives a 10. uh oh i think you just lost all respect for my judgment. o noes!!

It's not so much that you have bad judgment, but that you have none to begin with, nor are you capable of creating any. You're letting someone else judge for you.

[Mozgus]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... ar-Solid-4