So what have you guys been watching lately?

[noiseredux]

I'll I'm saying is that hip hop is positive and uplifting.

this is the major point we don't see eye to eye on. You see, I believe that hip hop is a medium for art. And I don't see it as something you can say "it has to be uplifting to be art!"

Would you say that only movies with a happy ending are "films?" Only paintings that please you asthetically are art?

Love hip hop, love rap, but they just aren't the same thing.

you keep bringing this up. Nobody's arguing that.

There's also a certain cut off of swagger in hip hop,

what the fuck are you talking about???

I don't need to listen to a full Kanye album to know he's not hip hop,

"I don't need to listen to a full Kanye album to form an opinion on it." <-- right?

he's a "jackass".

I'm not sure what somebodys disposition in their personal life has to do with the art that they create. Y'know Nirvana's entire discography is breath-taking especially considering the short time it was created. The documentary About A Boy paints a picture of Kurt that many of us don't want to know him as. But whatever he was like in real life doesn't change the art that he created.

[Gamerforlife]

Wow, this somehow turned into a music thread. How the hell did that happen?

[Luke]

I'll I'm saying is that hip hop is positive and uplifting.

this is the major point we don't see eye to eye on. You see, I believe that hip hop is a medium for art. And I don't see it as something you can say "it has to be uplifting to be art!"

Would you say that only movies with a happy ending are "films?" Only paintings that please you asthetically are art?

Love hip hop, love rap, but they just aren't the same thing.

you keep bringing this up. Nobody's arguing that.

There's also a certain cut off of swagger in hip hop,

what the fuck are you talking about???

I don't need to listen to a full Kanye album to know he's not hip hop,

"I don't need to listen to a full Kanye album to form an opinion on it." <-- right?

he's a "jackass".

I'm not sure what somebodys disposition in their personal life has to do with the art that they create. Y'know Nirvana's entire discography is breath-taking especially considering the short time it was created. The documentary About A Boy paints a picture of Kurt that many of us don't want to know him as. But whatever he was like in real life doesn't change the art that he created.

Oh, please don't put words in my mouth and curse. I thought we were having a civil discussion.

I never said anything about forming an opinion about an album. I said Kanye is a racist homophobe, which isn't hip hop. You can't argue with that. The guy's a dick, plain and simple. Not hip hop.

There is a cut off for any job where people just start to think you're a dick. That's what I was talking about concerning swagger (which I doubt 80% of people who speak English even know the definition of the word). LL, Dougie, Beastie Boys and Run DMC would brag, but at silly levels that wasn't talking down to the crowd. "I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but I'm intercontinental when I eat French Toast" is just a funny lyric.

If I was a jerk I'd ask what Nirvana has to do with hip hop, but I'll try to still be nice and give you an answer to this:


"I'm not sure what somebodys disposition in their personal life has to do with the art that they create"

Absolutely Everything.

[noiseredux]

I said Kanye is a racist homophobe, which isn't hip hop. You can't argue with that. The guy's a dick, plain and simple. Not hip hop.

again, I don't understand what you're talking about. How is somebody's disposition deciding if they are any sort of art? Hip hop is an art you know. The art that someone creates is based on their experience/thoughts/expression yet. I agree. But deciding if the outcome is art shouldn't rely on if it would fit on the House Party soundtrack or not.

I'm not even addressing IF Kanye is in fact racist or a homophobe. I'm just asking how it is that you can define someone as being part of an artform because of their opinions on race, sexuality or anything else that is entirely unrelated to creating music?

There is a cut off for any job where people just start to think you're a dick.

sure there is. But doesn't change your job.

"Hey what does Luke do?"

"He was a shoe cobbler... but he's become a total dick."

"So what does he do now?"

"He cobbles shoes. But he's not a shoe cobbler."

"Why not?"

"I already told you, he's been a dick lately."

If I was a jerk I'd ask what Nirvana has to do with hip hop,

that wouldn't make you a jerk. It would make you too stubborn to see the point I was attempting to create by drawing a line from one artist to another.


I guess bottom line is you've created your own personal definition of what is hip hop. It seems that if YOU don't like an artist, then "that's not hip hop!" That doesn't make it so.

[Hatta]

"I'm not sure what somebodys disposition in their personal life has to do with the art that they create"

Absolutely Everything.

Ride of the Valkeries is still every bit as gripping even if you know that Wagner was an antisemite. Just So Stories are just so much fun, that it doesn't matter that Kipling was a condescending imperialist.

[Luke]

You didn't quote my last point, which was the only thing important, and which I've been saying all along.

Hip Hop isn't a style of music, it's a lifestyle. Your disposition and personal life dictates your creations. That's why Kanye went from rapping about his broken jaw, to his dying mother, and now about running New York. His attitude went from humble to"imma let you finish".

I see it through different lenses though and take it a little too seriously since I just realized I haven't spun a record in years (but I have recently cabbage patched and dougied). I think the personal actions of people who represent hip hop are just as important as the music, and people want those representations to be positive.

And noise, I'm not trying to say that only "happy rap" is hip hop. I'm pretty sure there is a song about a kid dunking on Shaq (boy I wonder where he got that idea?) that is not hip hop.

Maybe I subcategorize things to the Nth degree (see: Cypress Hill, Funkdoobiest: not hip hop but pot hop).

[noiseredux]

Hip Hop isn't a style of music, it's a lifestyle.

I agree. I'm just pointing out that your definition of hip hop seems to be very VERY limited and not really in line with, well... anybody who actively listens to hip hop.

I don't think "people" want the actions of hip hop artists to be positive... you do. I just want them to be honest and interesting.

Also, what you don't realize is that Kanye does not rap about running New York (he lives in Chicago BTW, so just shows how closely you're listening), but rather has lately been rapping pretty much about not liking himself: a product of too much money/stardom too fast combined with a substance abuse problem if you're actually listening to his lyrics. Kind of my point that you shouldn't decide you know what he's about if you're not actually listening to the output.

[Luke]

Hip Hop isn't a style of music, it's a lifestyle.

I agree. I'm just pointing out that your definition of hip hop seems to be very VERY limited and not really in line with, well... anybody who actively listens to hip hop.

Yerp. Know that Kanye lives in Chicago (lord knows he says Chi-Town enough), but he does have his say in "run this town" among other songs that have references to NYC.

And again, yes; my definition is very limited. I'm nit picking for sure and I know it. Maybe I'm a "hip hop Purist".

I think we can end this discussion peacefully and with mutual respect with one question:

EightBall & MJG: Hip Hop, or Rap?

[noiseredux]

Yerp. Know that Kanye lives in Chicago (lord knows he says Chi-Town enough), but he does have his say in "run this town" among other songs that have references to NYC.

Kanye does not mention New York at all in his "Run This Town" verse. So no idea, dude.

Maybe I'm a "hip hop Purist".

I don't think you are though. I think you're just being closed minded in all honesty.

I think we can end this discussion peacefully and with mutual respect with one question:

EightBall & MJG: Hip Hop, or Rap?

my definition is more aligned with Mos Def's... "we are all hip hop... you, me, everyone."

Which is to say, it's all hip hop to me. It's part of a certain culture. Just in your definition the culture is far less inviting than in my definition.

[Luke]

Which is to say, it's all hip hop to me.

It certainly is.