Lol, the guy wasn't completely wrong to say that the thread title was confusing.squid wrote:Not attempting to infer anything, but this made me lol:
posted 8:40am
OP: "Last edited by Flake on Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total"BurningDoom wrote:Where is it in the original post that said I had to give only good lessons?
Flake has the quickest eyes and hands on racketboy. I suppose I am trying to infer something after all.
What introduced this gen that developers should keep?
Re: What lessons should developers take from this gen?
Maybe now Nintendo will acknowledge Metroid has a fanbase?
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BoringSupreez
- Next-Gen
- Posts: 9738
- Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:09 pm
- Location: Tokyo
Re: What introduced this gen that developers should keep?
Keep:
Achievements: I love these! For me, they add replay incentive, and a reason to play the game in a non-standard way. For example, I would never try to carry that lawn gnome all the way to the end of HL2: Episode 2 if it wasn't an achievement.
HD Graphics: Hey, the better graphics get, the better it is in my eyes.
Updated Remakes of Previous-Gen Games: Another thing I love. One thing that makes a good game better is updated graphics! Classic 8 and 16-bit games are excluded from this, as their graphics are timeless. 32 and 128 bit games are fair game.
Netflix Streaming: It's very handy to be able to use your console to watch Instant Streaming. I've used it plenty this gen.
Wireless Controllers: No more tangled wires on the floor!
The Death of Memory Cards: HDD's are so much better, and SD cards are nice too. Memory cards were always overpriced, except for Playstation 1 & 2 cards towards the end of those system's lifespan.
Achievements: I love these! For me, they add replay incentive, and a reason to play the game in a non-standard way. For example, I would never try to carry that lawn gnome all the way to the end of HL2: Episode 2 if it wasn't an achievement.
HD Graphics: Hey, the better graphics get, the better it is in my eyes.
Updated Remakes of Previous-Gen Games: Another thing I love. One thing that makes a good game better is updated graphics! Classic 8 and 16-bit games are excluded from this, as their graphics are timeless. 32 and 128 bit games are fair game.
Netflix Streaming: It's very handy to be able to use your console to watch Instant Streaming. I've used it plenty this gen.
Wireless Controllers: No more tangled wires on the floor!
The Death of Memory Cards: HDD's are so much better, and SD cards are nice too. Memory cards were always overpriced, except for Playstation 1 & 2 cards towards the end of those system's lifespan.
prfsnl_gmr wrote:There is nothing feigned about it. What I wrote is a display of actual moral superiority.
Re: What lessons should developers take from this gen?
Regardless, it's interesting to see everyone's thoughts in these two threads. That said, I'm seeing a pattern of disappointment with the current gen; a lot more attention and thought, so far, has been given to what shouldn't be kept.Flake wrote:Lol, the guy wasn't completely wrong to say that the thread title was confusing.
I want to see Japanese language tracks included in games released in North American as we move forward into the next generation.
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flamepanther
- Next-Gen
- Posts: 1608
- Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:40 pm
Re: What introduced this gen that developers should keep?
Now that motion controls are being used reasonably instead of being bolted-on and over-used, I say keep them.
Sega and Sonic Team seem to have learned from recent experiments with Sonic that consistent gameplay and attention to good, polished level design are more important than just branding haphazard games with a popular brand or character. Other developers can learn from this and keep it going.
As an aside to the above, I think Sonic fans might be starting to learn that the "green-eyed monster" has nothing to do with how good or bad the recent games are. That would be a keeper too, though little to do with developers.
Activision learned there is a limit to how many Guitar Hero games we'll buy in a row. Maybe they'll figure out that this eventually applies to any other series, and maybe Capcom and EA can take note.
Nintendo demonstrated that high-powered graphics are less important than engaging players in new and interesting (and affordable) experiences, and that there is still a place in gaming for elegant simplicity. Hopefully others will learn from this and not just ape their motion controls.
Nintendo likewise learned that there are downsides to not paying enough attention to the needs of core gamers.
Sega and Sonic Team seem to have learned from recent experiments with Sonic that consistent gameplay and attention to good, polished level design are more important than just branding haphazard games with a popular brand or character. Other developers can learn from this and keep it going.
As an aside to the above, I think Sonic fans might be starting to learn that the "green-eyed monster" has nothing to do with how good or bad the recent games are. That would be a keeper too, though little to do with developers.
Activision learned there is a limit to how many Guitar Hero games we'll buy in a row. Maybe they'll figure out that this eventually applies to any other series, and maybe Capcom and EA can take note.
Nintendo demonstrated that high-powered graphics are less important than engaging players in new and interesting (and affordable) experiences, and that there is still a place in gaming for elegant simplicity. Hopefully others will learn from this and not just ape their motion controls.
Nintendo likewise learned that there are downsides to not paying enough attention to the needs of core gamers.
Re: What lessons should developers take from this gen?
What lessons should developers take from this gen?
I like the older Thread Title better, both the good and the bad.
Good
I think finally coming to grips with motion controls, getting the best out of FPS games with the instant aim aspect of Light Gun games.
Bad
Oh crap, now we get another round of oversaturation of FPS games with the discovered motion controls.
I like the older Thread Title better, both the good and the bad.
Good
I think finally coming to grips with motion controls, getting the best out of FPS games with the instant aim aspect of Light Gun games.
Bad
Oh crap, now we get another round of oversaturation of FPS games with the discovered motion controls.
CRT vs LCD - Hardware Mods - HDAdvance - Custom Controllers - Game Storage - Wii Gamecube and other Guides:
CRTGAMER Guides in Board Guides Index: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p1109425
Re: What introduced this gen that developers should keep?
I'm glad to see this thread because I think current gen gets dogged on a lot in this forum, and while some of it is deserved, we should take note of the cool stuff that has been happening.
Caveat: I don't think the following apply to all games, but are tools either invented, developed, or perfected in the current gen (past 5-10 years) that I think have been really smart ideas.
Cover Shooting Mechanics: I bet you didn't see that one coming since most people here hate Call of Duty/Gears of War games that depend on cover shooting. I think it's overused as well, but it is a solution to a problem that FPS games have traditionally had, which is that they don't work well in the great outdoors. If you are going to have expansive outdoor levels in an FPS you traditionally only a few options: enemies only have melee attacks so you have time to react, enemies shoot slow moving projectiles so you can dodge, or health powerups are littered everywhere so you can get shot a lot and still live. With cover based mechanics, FPS games have taken to the outdoors a bit more than they have in the past. It can clearly be (and has been) overused, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea, just an overapplied idea.
Class-based multiplayer: Game like Team Fortress 2 have this perfected to a science. Having different characters that serve different functions for a team promotes commraderie and teamwork. It also means you can play the game differently by choosing a character that has attributes that fit your playstyle. Are you a stealthy player? Choose the Spy. Do you like to walk in guns blazing? Choose the Heavy. Do you want to heal people? Choose the medic. Class-based multiplayer games let you play to your individual strengths and the diversity of players adds to the team's overall power.
Online Co-op Play: I mainly thinking of Valve again, this time in the form of Left 4 Dead and Portal 2. Left 4 Dead is designed to kill you if you play alone, but let you survive if you work as a team. You learn to play well with others and heal whoever needs it the most instead of being greedy (though there's a bit of being greedy too, but that's all part of the game). Also, if you haven't played co-op in Portal 2 (preferably with someone that hasn't solved all the puzzles yet), then you are doing yourself a disservice. The ability to work with a buddy to think outside the box and solve puzzles that require two people to be solved is an absolute blast and a highly memorable gaming experience.
User generated content: I'm thinking mostly Little Big Planet and Minecraft here. Little Big Planet ambitiously tried to make a whole culture out of user generated content. Minecraft is nothing but user generated content, and if you get enough nerds together with enough free time and creative, amazing things happen, like a complete Minecraft recreation of JRR Tolkien's middle earth.
Streamlined HUDS/GUI/Menus It seems like the current gen has really streamlined the interface of videogames. I sometimes find it hard to play older PC games because a lot of them were created at a time when Microsoft Windows was still a new idea. Games now have really intuitive interfaces and this is often overlooked because they feel so natural. I also like that there are many games now that try to remove the HUD entirely and represent damage throw other means, such as blurred vision, heavy breathing sound effects, etc. Then there are games like Dead Space where the HUD and Menu system is all integrated into the high tech environment as part of the capabilities of Isaac's suit.
Audio-visual Representations of Private Sensory Experience: This goes along with what I just said about invisible HUDS, but with FPS becoming the predominant genre of the current gen, they have come up with a lot of clever ways of modeling perceptions that you can only experience from the first person perspective. For example, when a grenade detonates near you in a Half-Life game you hear the sound dip out and you are only left with that high-pitched tinitus squeel for a few seconds before you recover. Or in Amnesia: The Dark Descent, as your character gets more panicked, his vision blurs and sometimes he begins to see things that aren't there. We also hear his gasps, breathing, and banging heartbeat as well.
Branching Storylines and Moral Decision Making: Games like Heavy Rain, The Witcher, and Mass Effect have made great advances in giving players more freedom in character dialogue and have even provided us with some morally ambiguous situations where we actually have a choice of how we act and the story will branch with different consequences depending on those choices.
In-Game Storytelling: The Half Life series is probably most famous for this, but I love when games don't wrestle the controls away from you to tell the story and instead you are allowed your freedom of movement. This was executed to perfection in Portal 2 where you never feel like you even have to stop to keep the story running and audio clips are timed perfectly to end before you reach the next exit.
That's enough for now. I may post some more later as I think of them. While I love retro, I really think the current gen has some great things to offer too. It's just easy to miss them sometimes in a mess of 50 games that all basically look and feel like Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare.
Caveat: I don't think the following apply to all games, but are tools either invented, developed, or perfected in the current gen (past 5-10 years) that I think have been really smart ideas.
Cover Shooting Mechanics: I bet you didn't see that one coming since most people here hate Call of Duty/Gears of War games that depend on cover shooting. I think it's overused as well, but it is a solution to a problem that FPS games have traditionally had, which is that they don't work well in the great outdoors. If you are going to have expansive outdoor levels in an FPS you traditionally only a few options: enemies only have melee attacks so you have time to react, enemies shoot slow moving projectiles so you can dodge, or health powerups are littered everywhere so you can get shot a lot and still live. With cover based mechanics, FPS games have taken to the outdoors a bit more than they have in the past. It can clearly be (and has been) overused, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea, just an overapplied idea.
Class-based multiplayer: Game like Team Fortress 2 have this perfected to a science. Having different characters that serve different functions for a team promotes commraderie and teamwork. It also means you can play the game differently by choosing a character that has attributes that fit your playstyle. Are you a stealthy player? Choose the Spy. Do you like to walk in guns blazing? Choose the Heavy. Do you want to heal people? Choose the medic. Class-based multiplayer games let you play to your individual strengths and the diversity of players adds to the team's overall power.
Online Co-op Play: I mainly thinking of Valve again, this time in the form of Left 4 Dead and Portal 2. Left 4 Dead is designed to kill you if you play alone, but let you survive if you work as a team. You learn to play well with others and heal whoever needs it the most instead of being greedy (though there's a bit of being greedy too, but that's all part of the game). Also, if you haven't played co-op in Portal 2 (preferably with someone that hasn't solved all the puzzles yet), then you are doing yourself a disservice. The ability to work with a buddy to think outside the box and solve puzzles that require two people to be solved is an absolute blast and a highly memorable gaming experience.
User generated content: I'm thinking mostly Little Big Planet and Minecraft here. Little Big Planet ambitiously tried to make a whole culture out of user generated content. Minecraft is nothing but user generated content, and if you get enough nerds together with enough free time and creative, amazing things happen, like a complete Minecraft recreation of JRR Tolkien's middle earth.
Streamlined HUDS/GUI/Menus It seems like the current gen has really streamlined the interface of videogames. I sometimes find it hard to play older PC games because a lot of them were created at a time when Microsoft Windows was still a new idea. Games now have really intuitive interfaces and this is often overlooked because they feel so natural. I also like that there are many games now that try to remove the HUD entirely and represent damage throw other means, such as blurred vision, heavy breathing sound effects, etc. Then there are games like Dead Space where the HUD and Menu system is all integrated into the high tech environment as part of the capabilities of Isaac's suit.
Audio-visual Representations of Private Sensory Experience: This goes along with what I just said about invisible HUDS, but with FPS becoming the predominant genre of the current gen, they have come up with a lot of clever ways of modeling perceptions that you can only experience from the first person perspective. For example, when a grenade detonates near you in a Half-Life game you hear the sound dip out and you are only left with that high-pitched tinitus squeel for a few seconds before you recover. Or in Amnesia: The Dark Descent, as your character gets more panicked, his vision blurs and sometimes he begins to see things that aren't there. We also hear his gasps, breathing, and banging heartbeat as well.
Branching Storylines and Moral Decision Making: Games like Heavy Rain, The Witcher, and Mass Effect have made great advances in giving players more freedom in character dialogue and have even provided us with some morally ambiguous situations where we actually have a choice of how we act and the story will branch with different consequences depending on those choices.
In-Game Storytelling: The Half Life series is probably most famous for this, but I love when games don't wrestle the controls away from you to tell the story and instead you are allowed your freedom of movement. This was executed to perfection in Portal 2 where you never feel like you even have to stop to keep the story running and audio clips are timed perfectly to end before you reach the next exit.
That's enough for now. I may post some more later as I think of them. While I love retro, I really think the current gen has some great things to offer too. It's just easy to miss them sometimes in a mess of 50 games that all basically look and feel like Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare.
My contributions to the Racketboy site:
Browser Games ... Free PC Games ... Mixtapes ... Doujin Games ... SotC Poetry
Browser Games ... Free PC Games ... Mixtapes ... Doujin Games ... SotC Poetry
What things SHOULD developers continue to do after this gen?
To spin off of Flake's spinoff (http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 44&t=32382)...what have developers done well this gen that they should continue to do?
Maybe I am in the minority that for the most part likes DLC, is glad to see the market expanding to include a wider audience, and has no problem with the popularity of genres or franchises I don't personally care for.
-Keep pushing towards more immersive graphics and sound in the genres where it makes sense (horror, FPS, sports, etc.). Of course they tend to do this every gen anyway, but sheer horsepower has mostly improved these genres over time.
-Keep promoting independent game companies and arcade-style games via cheap downloadable titles. As a gamer with a love for the style of many older games, I think the coolest thing about this gen is stuff like Castle Crashers, Shoot 1Up, Shatter, Flower, and any number of other games that cost $1-$15 and scratch that itch. The fact that many of these games are made by small studios is also very cool.
-Keep engaging your audience. Many companies give at least some attention to feedback from the community surrounding their games, with some like Bioware or Bungie really taking the fan interaction seriously. There have also been a lot of Betas and Alphas this gen, which is also relatively new for the console market. Companies should continue to step up fan interaction in ways that are beneficial to them and their audience.
-Publish more special editions. Maybe some of you think there are far too many of these, but I like the fact that a nice percentage of games that I have looked forward to for the past three or four years have had editions that include artbooks, statues, or bonus content. Sure, most don't hold their value very well - but for me that isn't the point of picking these up.
What else?
Maybe I am in the minority that for the most part likes DLC, is glad to see the market expanding to include a wider audience, and has no problem with the popularity of genres or franchises I don't personally care for.
-Keep pushing towards more immersive graphics and sound in the genres where it makes sense (horror, FPS, sports, etc.). Of course they tend to do this every gen anyway, but sheer horsepower has mostly improved these genres over time.
-Keep promoting independent game companies and arcade-style games via cheap downloadable titles. As a gamer with a love for the style of many older games, I think the coolest thing about this gen is stuff like Castle Crashers, Shoot 1Up, Shatter, Flower, and any number of other games that cost $1-$15 and scratch that itch. The fact that many of these games are made by small studios is also very cool.
-Keep engaging your audience. Many companies give at least some attention to feedback from the community surrounding their games, with some like Bioware or Bungie really taking the fan interaction seriously. There have also been a lot of Betas and Alphas this gen, which is also relatively new for the console market. Companies should continue to step up fan interaction in ways that are beneficial to them and their audience.
-Publish more special editions. Maybe some of you think there are far too many of these, but I like the fact that a nice percentage of games that I have looked forward to for the past three or four years have had editions that include artbooks, statues, or bonus content. Sure, most don't hold their value very well - but for me that isn't the point of picking these up.
What else?
Re: What things SHOULD developers continue to do after this gen?
Flake made two threads, but the one for what to keep from this gen hasn't been as popular:
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 44&t=32380
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 44&t=32380
My contributions to the Racketboy site:
Browser Games ... Free PC Games ... Mixtapes ... Doujin Games ... SotC Poetry
Browser Games ... Free PC Games ... Mixtapes ... Doujin Games ... SotC Poetry
Re: What things SHOULD developers continue to do after this gen?
whoops!J T wrote:Flake made two threads, but the one for what to keep from this gen hasn't been as popular:
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 44&t=32380
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Gamerforlife
- Next-Gen
- Posts: 10184
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:15 pm
- Location: Florida
Re: What introduced this gen that developers should keep?
1. HD updates - I'm in favor of them if they are done well and reasonably priced. I have some issues with Beyond Good and Evil HD and Sly Collection, but overall their existence makes me happy
2. Digital Downlad games - Yeah, pretty much what everyone else has said. I've enjoyed games like Castle Crashers, Dishwasher Dead Samurai Vampire Smiles, Outland and Flower. They wouldn't exist were it not for the popularity of PSN and Xbox Live Arcade
3. Games where players can affect the story - Heavy Rain and Mass Effect are great examples
4. JRPGs focusing on faster paced, semi-real time combat - I love the more fast paced combat in games like Final Fantasy 13 and Crisis Core. Turn based combat where everybody takes turns running across the battlefield before getting back in line is yesterday's news. If people like nothing else about FF13, they should at least love its badass combat system
5. The continued evolution of Tomb Raider - I have always been a TR fan, but the series has had a very up and down history. Guardian of Light made a good impression on me though, aside from its shitty last boss fight. Since I can't seem to get into Uncharted as much as every one else seems to, it's still all about Miss Croft for me
6. I want to see the 3D beat'em up model evolve beyond the same old Devil May Cry approach. Games like Batman Arkham Asylum have given me hope and I just started playing Zeno Clash. So there's another game that tried a different approach. I think we've done it all with 2D. The Dishwasher Vampire Smile was like 2d beat'em up nirvana for me
7. I want to see more games explore interaction with animals. We all loved the horse in Shadow of the Colossus and I really enjoyed playing Viva Pinata. I hope the rumors of another Pikmin game come to fruition
8. Carry over story elements between games - Mass Effect and Infamous have explored this.
9. Games dealing with more mature, adult story elements that people can relate to - I think both Heavy Rain and Catherine are good examples of this with their focus on real life issues like relationships, fatherhood, etc. Not every game has to be about saving the world, killing aliens and saving princesses
10. Games that don't shy away from presenting sex in mature, tasteful ways - Good examples being Heavy Rain and Catherine. Bad examples being sex mini-games in God of War and the completely juvenile penis jokes in Shadows of the Damned, which got a few chuckles out of me early on, but got annoying over the course of the game as they got more numerous and far less clever. Watching your main character shoot from a long gun, held in front of his crotch while shouting, "Taste my hot boner!" over and over again isn't doing anything for helping games be taken more seriously. I'm not a prude, but that game really does get ridiculous and makes Beavis and Butthead jokes seem subtle
2. Digital Downlad games - Yeah, pretty much what everyone else has said. I've enjoyed games like Castle Crashers, Dishwasher Dead Samurai Vampire Smiles, Outland and Flower. They wouldn't exist were it not for the popularity of PSN and Xbox Live Arcade
3. Games where players can affect the story - Heavy Rain and Mass Effect are great examples
4. JRPGs focusing on faster paced, semi-real time combat - I love the more fast paced combat in games like Final Fantasy 13 and Crisis Core. Turn based combat where everybody takes turns running across the battlefield before getting back in line is yesterday's news. If people like nothing else about FF13, they should at least love its badass combat system
5. The continued evolution of Tomb Raider - I have always been a TR fan, but the series has had a very up and down history. Guardian of Light made a good impression on me though, aside from its shitty last boss fight. Since I can't seem to get into Uncharted as much as every one else seems to, it's still all about Miss Croft for me
6. I want to see the 3D beat'em up model evolve beyond the same old Devil May Cry approach. Games like Batman Arkham Asylum have given me hope and I just started playing Zeno Clash. So there's another game that tried a different approach. I think we've done it all with 2D. The Dishwasher Vampire Smile was like 2d beat'em up nirvana for me
7. I want to see more games explore interaction with animals. We all loved the horse in Shadow of the Colossus and I really enjoyed playing Viva Pinata. I hope the rumors of another Pikmin game come to fruition
8. Carry over story elements between games - Mass Effect and Infamous have explored this.
9. Games dealing with more mature, adult story elements that people can relate to - I think both Heavy Rain and Catherine are good examples of this with their focus on real life issues like relationships, fatherhood, etc. Not every game has to be about saving the world, killing aliens and saving princesses
10. Games that don't shy away from presenting sex in mature, tasteful ways - Good examples being Heavy Rain and Catherine. Bad examples being sex mini-games in God of War and the completely juvenile penis jokes in Shadows of the Damned, which got a few chuckles out of me early on, but got annoying over the course of the game as they got more numerous and far less clever. Watching your main character shoot from a long gun, held in front of his crotch while shouting, "Taste my hot boner!" over and over again isn't doing anything for helping games be taken more seriously. I'm not a prude, but that game really does get ridiculous and makes Beavis and Butthead jokes seem subtle
RyaNtheSlayA wrote:
Seriously. Screw you Shao Kahn I'm gonna play Animal Crossing.