The Playstation 2 is officially the best selling console

Gaming on the Playstation and Xbox Platforms
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Inazuma
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Re: The Playstation 2 is officially the best selling console

Post by Inazuma »

ZeroAX wrote:
Flake wrote: Similar to how games would receive poor scores on review if they were not 3D during that time period. Everyone was so busy moving on to 'the next big thing' that no value was seen in technology and techniques that already existed.
Only that, from a game design point of view, there are many advantages to 2D gameplay, but there are no advantages to cartridges as a format over optical media. I love cartridges as well, but they would have killed the industry if they had stayed.
I won't argue about CDs being cheaper, and faster to produce, but there are quite a few advantages to cartridges.

- no load times
- more durable
- cartridge based systems themselves are less likely to break thanks to no moving parts
- can save your progress directly onto the cartridge
- it's possible to add extra chips inside the cartridge for more graphical power
- better protection against piracy (Is this a good thing or not? You be the judge.)
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Re: The Playstation 2 is officially the best selling console

Post by ZeroAX »

Inazuma wrote: - no load times
- more durable
- cartridge based systems themselves are less likely to break thanks to no moving parts
- can save your progress directly onto the cartridge
- it's possible to add extra chips inside the cartridge for more graphical power
- better protection against piracy (Is this a good thing or not? You be the judge.)
1) The load time in modern systems has been greatly reduced compared to the PS1 era.
2-4) So? Those things hardly make for a better gameplay experience (plus the hard drive + USB memory stick provide better use than the cartridges save memory ever could)
5) Thus making the production of the game much more expensive for a few graphical tricks
6) In this day and age with SD pirate carts, you think that would have stopped piracy on home consoles? The DS says otherwise.

There's a reason the cartridge format on home consoles died. Optical media were just better. On the other hand carts are much better suited on portables.
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BoneSnapDeez wrote:The success of a console is determined by how much I enjoy it.
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Bradtemple87
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Re: The Playstation 2 is officially the best selling console

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I thought this was old news? PS2 has always been a top contender.
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Re: The Playstation 2 is officially the best selling console

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Inazuma wrote:
avrame wrote:Anyone else shudder at the idea of having a COMPLETE ps2 library?...

:shock:
I think there is at least one gamer seriously trying to do it. There is a picture somewhere...

http://www.sydbolton.com/images/ps2large.jpg
Found it!
That's awesome. There are a lot of great games on those shelves (also a lot of junk... but sometimes you take the good with the bad).
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Inazuma
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Re: The Playstation 2 is officially the best selling console

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ZeroAX wrote:
Inazuma wrote: - no load times
- more durable
- cartridge based systems themselves are less likely to break thanks to no moving parts
- can save your progress directly onto the cartridge
- it's possible to add extra chips inside the cartridge for more graphical power
- better protection against piracy (Is this a good thing or not? You be the judge.)
1) The load time in modern systems has been greatly reduced compared to the PS1 era.
2-4) So? Those things hardly make for a better gameplay experience (plus the hard drive + USB memory stick provide better use than the cartridges save memory ever could)
5) Thus making the production of the game much more expensive for a few graphical tricks
6) In this day and age with SD pirate carts, you think that would have stopped piracy on home consoles? The DS says otherwise.

There's a reason the cartridge format on home consoles died. Optical media were just better. On the other hand carts are much better suited on portables.
1) Again, cartridges have no load times. No load times is better than short load times.
2-3) Hardly make for a better gameplay experience? I wasn't talking about gameplay itself. If the game or system is broken, you can't even play the game in the first place, lol. You honestly prefer less durable games/systems? Give me a break.
4) Cartridge games aren't forced to save directly onto the cartridge. It's an option available to them that optical media cannot do.
5) Of course it makes the game more expensive. The point is, CDs can't do it. Do you even understand how Pro/Con lists work?
6) Nowadays everything is hacked, yeah. But before flash carts, CD based games were more easily pirated.

Let's make a con list for cartridges:
- more expensive to produce
- storage space is more expensive
- people are more likely to discard the box/manual which sucks if you buy used games

The main reason optical formats won out on home consoles was money. Not only was the cartridge itself expensive to make but the price of memory was very expensive as well. Nowadays memory is a lot cheaper and cartridges are a lot smaller, so it's not as bad.

You remember the Neo Geo cartridges? They could have the same storage capacity as CDs, but it was very expensive. Imagine if the PS1 used the same kind of cartridges as Neo Geo games. Of course it would have been fucking expensive but it would have better in every other way.

I know that game companies are out to make money and most consumers care about price more than quality products, so optical media was the better choice. My point is that cartridges are better, money aside.
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Bradtemple87
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Re: The Playstation 2 is officially the best selling console

Post by Bradtemple87 »

ejamer wrote:
Inazuma wrote:
avrame wrote:Anyone else shudder at the idea of having a COMPLETE ps2 library?...

:shock:
I think there is at least one gamer seriously trying to do it. There is a picture somewhere...

http://www.sydbolton.com/images/ps2large.jpg
Found it!
That's awesome. There are a lot of great games on those shelves (also a lot of junk... but sometimes you take the good with the bad).
I love it and that's just US releases. Japanese titles would double that :lol:
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Inazuma
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Re: The Playstation 2 is officially the best selling console

Post by Inazuma »

Bradtemple87 wrote: I love it and that's just US releases. Japanese titles would double that :lol:
There are around twice as many American Wii games than there are Japanese Wii games. It's interesting how things have changed since the days of the PS2.
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Re: The Playstation 2 is officially the best selling console

Post by ZeroAX »

Inazuma wrote: 2-3) Hardly make for a better gameplay experience? I wasn't talking about gameplay itself. If the game or system is broken, you can't even play the game in the first place, lol. You honestly prefer less durable games/systems? Give me a break.
ZeroAX wrote:Only that, from a game design point of view, there are many advantages to 2D gameplay, but there are no advantages to cartridges as a format over optical media.
Last edited by ZeroAX on Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BoneSnapDeez wrote:The success of a console is determined by how much I enjoy it.
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Bradtemple87
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Re: The Playstation 2 is officially the best selling console

Post by Bradtemple87 »

Inazuma wrote:
Bradtemple87 wrote: I love it and that's just US releases. Japanese titles would double that :lol:
There are around twice as many American Wii games than there are Japanese Wii games. It's interesting how things have changed since the days of the PS2.
Yes but sadly the US wii library is THE definition of shovelware :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Playstation 2 is officially the best selling console

Post by Limewater »

Inazuma wrote: You remember the Neo Geo cartridges? They could have the same storage capacity as CDs, but it was very expensive. Imagine if the PS1 used the same kind of cartridges as Neo Geo games. Of course it would have been fucking expensive but it would have better in every other way.
I'm a big fan of cartridges myself, and prefer them do optical media. However, you are mistaken in this paragraph. The largest official Neo Geo cart was, like, 716 Mb, which is only about 90 MB, or about 1/7th the storage space of a CD.

Solid state memory is a lot cheaper now, though.
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