NFL Discussion Topic

[Luke]

Unless you actually hang around the guy 24/7 you really have no clue what type of person he is behind closed doors..

Even if I did hang out with the guy 24/7 that still doesn't mean I know what type of person he is.

The fact is his teammates, who even after winning Superbowls with him despised him, have said that he's a different person. It used to be Ben and then the rest of the team. Now they are a team. That is a significant change in my eyes, and it doesn't seem at all to be bullshit.

Now will you finally quit dodging my question and cite one thing Vick has done to redeem himself or are you going to keep picking my posts apart?

[EvilRyu2099]

Even if I did hang out with the guy 24/7 that still doesn't mean I know what type of person he is.

The fact is his teammates, who even after winning Superbowls with him despised him, have said that he's a different person. It used to be Ben and then the rest of the team. Now they are a team. That is a significant change in my eyes, and it doesn't seem at all to be bullshit.

Now will you finally quit dodging my question and cite one thing Vick has done to redeem himself or are you going to keep picking my posts apart?

The only thing you mentioned was what his teammates said.. So Roger Goodell has also stated Mike Vick seems changed.. Doesn't change the fact.. You named nothing as well.. Point is both guys can play and that all that seems to count..

[Luke]

Now will you finally quit dodging my question and cite one thing Vick has done to redeem himself or are you going to keep picking my posts apart?

Point is both guys can play and that all that seems to count..

So your answer is a solid no. Just leave it at that.

[EvilRyu2099]

Now will you finally quit dodging my question and cite one thing Vick has done to redeem himself or are you going to keep picking my posts apart?

Point is both guys can play and that all that seems to count..

So your answer is a solid no. Just leave it at that.

NO it's not.. Because the basis of your argument is flawed.. These so-called compliments of Ben have only occurred recently when they started making their playoff and regular season run which I find as quite the coincidence.. The majority of fans don't side with you just face it.. Both guys have been received in a positive light, because they win ball games and can score TDs, not because they are model citizens.. I'm not arguing for Vick, I'm arguing against the fact that you think Ben is a good character..

[Luke]

Ahem...
So, you finally got something on Vick? Or are you going to keep dodging this question over and over?

[EvilRyu2099]

Doesn't really make a difference you say he's making strides when the fact of the matter is that I could list articles from both parties on teammates commenting on how their respective signal caller are trying to redeem themselves... Both Qbs are winning so of course you're going to get some fuzzy writeup about how each player has changed for the better... You're going by articles and performance on the field... You're just falling into a journalistic trap... Just a couple weeks ago they we're talking about how Jay Cutler was turning a corner because they got to the NFC championship game and how only two weeks later is getting crucified again for leaving a football game and pouting..

[Luke]

Doesn't really make a difference you say he's making strides when the fact of the matter is that I could list articles from both parties on teammates commenting on how their respective signal caller are trying to redeem themselves... Both Qbs are winning so of course you're going to get some fuzzy writeup about how each player has changed for the better... You're going by articles and performance on the field... You're just falling into a journalistic trap... Just a couple weeks ago they we're talking about how Jay Cutler was turning a corner because they got to the NFC championship game and how only two weeks later is getting crucified again for leaving a football game and pouting..

1) We're not talking about performance on the field. You are comparing apples to oranges.
2) You obviously are reacting without reading my posts.
3) Roger Goodell called Vick's coach to see if Vick was still fucking up, not to congratulate him.
4) Ahem...
So, you finally got something on Vick? Or are you going to keep dodging this question over and over? If not, go on with all your nonsensical rhetoric. You've wasted enough of my time without providing one post with any coherent thought.

Fact: You still can't provide one shred of evidence Vick has tried to change,
Fact: I've cite quotes, not articles from teammates who even after winning superbowls with Ben, chastised him, and months ago (again if you would actually read my posts you'd know this) the same players said they have noticed a profound change in his character on and off the field.

So, for about the 10th time..You got something to back your first post on Vick or not?

[EvilRyu2099]

1) We're not talking about performance on the field. You are comparing apples to oranges.
2) You obviously are reacting without reading my posts.
3) Roger Goodell called Vick's coach to see if Vick was still fucking up, not to congratulate him.
4) Ahem...
So, you finally got something on Vick? Or are you going to keep dodging this question over and over? If not, go on with all your nonsensical rhetoric. You've wasted enough of my time without providing one post with any coherent thought.

Fact: You still can't provide one shred of evidence Vick has tried to change,
Fact: I've cite quotes, not articles from teammates who even after winning superbowls with Ben, chastised him, and months ago (again if you would actually read my posts you'd know this) the same players said they have noticed a profound change in his character on and off the field.

So, for about the 10th time..You got something to back your first post on Vick or not?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 07187.html

http://www.birdsfan.com/2010-11-20/mich ... nd-chance/

And yet you cite quotes of what you heard on probably some network? Give me some links also... I can't believe I'm defending one scumbag against another.. In fact I'll help you out with some..

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-01-21/us/s ... s?_s=PM:US

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/5631 ... ters-wrong

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=a ... hlisberger


Same generic articles, different person.. Notice how the first article was posted then follows the last article of Big Ben.. BTW that last post was on my phone so I couldn't link them then.. >.<

[Luke]

I can't believe I'm defending one scumbag against another..

Yeah really. Let's leave it at what we know: very little.

You think Vick has changed, I don't.

I think Ben has changed, you don't.

My gut just tells me that Ben is a different person, and my gut tells me Vick isn't. It's just plain as that. But, at least let us have some humor in our discussion, as it has run its course.

"The People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals issued a written statement through a spokesperson that said: "As long as he's throwing a football and not electrocuting a dog, PETA is pleased he is focused on his game."

Now that is hilarious.

"If you throw shiny happy touchdowns - people will get over your ugly past real quick," Hughes wrote.

Unfortunately, this is very, very true. Then again, I don't expect much from guys who play with balls for a living.

[EvilRyu2099]

You think Vick has changed, I don't.

I think Ben has changed, you don't.
.

Nah I don't think either has changed.. I've been burned too many times with this.. Take Miguel Cabrera in 2009.. Was a huge fan of his(And Tigers), but I'm skeptical now, except that he can knock the cover off of the ball..