Do you believe in god?

[jp1]

Well for instance your "Not if he wants to gain knowledge" comment would not have been well received if it had been a jab at the people who do not believe in god.

There is a general attitude about being "right" or knowing the "truth" with some of the posters who do not believe that probably wouldn't go over well if it was reversed. It almost comes across as smug or as if you're some way superior because you have a different belief from someone else.

The truth is if you want to base your belief on facts then either side could be wrong. I suppose a few hundred years ago you could choose to not believe that the world was round because it couldn't be proven true. Now that it has those people would feel foolish. The absence of tangible evidence doesn't necessarily prove a point.

Say I joined in on the Henry Grik thread with "Only if he doesn't want to go to hell and be a bad person." Now, I would never post that but assuming I did how well received would it be by you?

@ hatta, it isn't a double standard because I'm not preaching religion or making comments about it being "right" to anyone. I'm saying that if you don't want religion pushed at you then you shouldn't push your ideals on others.

I'm not trying to single you out Jreece as I am sure a lot of your posts are intended with humor as usual but you are the one that asked.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that not everyone who believes in god is a zealot and goes from door to door trying to push beliefs on those that don't want them. I'm not trying to push anything on anyone I have no problem with anyone else believing whatever they want. I just think a little mutual respect should be in order when it comes to the comments and joking around.

[Octopod]

^That shit has nothing to do with my thread so please do not bring it here. Take it to the Henry Grik thread if you must.

[jp1]

^That shit has nothing to do with my thread so please do not bring it here. Take it to the Henry Grik thread if you must.

It seemed relevant to your thread since some of the posts I was referencing were in your thread. But as you wish, I won't post about it any longer. It is obviously not going to come to a mutual understanding anyway, I don't know why I bothered.

Who's trying to force their disbelief? On this forum I mean. We've been debating religion back and forth in two different topics, and obviously both sides think they're right, but I don't see anyone trying to force anything down anyones throat. It's just. . . debating.

Reading back I was wrong about "shoving it down their throats" none of that has taken place. It was more the general attitude towards believers that I meant to address.

It's funny that my non offensive post that took no shots at anyone's views is the one that pushed the envelope.

[Octopod]

You can keep talking all you want in this thread but you are starting to bring in stuff from other threads into it.

I should have been more specific that I was referring to the stuff from the Henry Grik thread.

[jp1]

It's cool. It probably wasn't headed anywhere productive anyway. Better off to redirect.

[Jrecee]

My "not if he wants to gain new knowledge" was just a joke in reference to the two ongoing religious threads.

I don't believe that everyone who believes in god is an evangelist. The truth is, I have met very few people in my life who press their beliefs in that way. Though obviously if I were to follow a different crowd I could easily find those people.

Also, a mutual understanding doesn't mean agreement. I'll most likely never believe in god, and many that do probably won't reject that belief. But I do understand that many people who believe in god feel the exact same way I do, just from the other side.

I'm just going to throw out some reasons why a lot of atheists have taken the 'evangelist' approach.

And once again, we know that not every religious person is a zealot.

A major portion of the US population will say that they are 'christian' when asked their religious views. We all pretty much know the jist of christian teachings, and just based on the typical prime time tv lineup, I would imagine that a large group of those 'christians' are less attached to their beliefs than many would imagine. I've known many people who fit into this loose christian category throughout my life.

Most religious groups are fairly well organized. They hold a lot of power. They are capable of demonizing things like homosexuality, stem cell research, the theory of evolution, and atheists.

I think (or would hope) that the majority of christians are not like this. Most don't hate atheists (or muslims or jews).

Yet there is a very very strong influence over our country by christians (and even jews, who by a lot of statistics are a smaller group than atheists!).

Here's the point, atheists aren't particularly well organized. Some atheists will argue that that completely goes against the point of atheism. We feel that at this point that there is a strong effort by the religious to hold back progress or to force their beliefs on the majority. I've spoken directly with people who 1. Want creationism taught in schools 2. Want prayer in schools. 3. Want abortion banned (every kind) 4. Want all gays kicked out of the military.

What's scary is that there are politicians who support these agendas. And there are enough well organized religious groups to get these politicians elected. Meanwhile, it's very hard for an atheist to get elected to anything.

Just skipping to the point I'm trying to make; we feel like there are a lot of people on the line between religion and atheism. The majority will protect them from feeling left out if they choose religion. And the religious won't stop in trying to gain new members. Speaking out for atheism makes a point that it's ok to give up religion.

Ok I've typed too much and I'm losing my train of thought so I'll leave it at that for now. It's probably a jumbled mess of ideas but whatever.

[jp1]

My "not if he wants to gain new knowledge" was just a joke in reference to the two ongoing religious threads.

I figured as much. I'm just not sure that the same sense of humor is appreciated equally on both sides of the fence. Would it be cool for me to make atheist jokes without upsetting anyone?

Admittedly, I know very little about what atheist believe/don't believe or feel. I have a hard time understanding the concept honestly. I mean I can understand that you don't believe in god or a lot of what religion stands for but I don't really understand actively not believing in god. I can understand indifference easily enough. I don't believe in monsters therefor I am indifferent about monsters and the people who do believe in them.

Of course you make a good point about Christian beliefs affecting the every day lives of people who might not believe the same things and I suppose it would be hard to be indifferent when dealing with prejudices and judgments that don't apply to you and your beliefs. Even as a Christian myself I believe in a complete separation of church and state.

[Jrecee]

I figured as much. I'm just not sure that the same sense of humor is appreciated equally on both sides of the fence. Would it be cool for me to make atheist jokes without upsetting anyone?

Admittedly, I know very little about what atheist believe/don't believe or feel. I have a hard time understanding the concept honestly. I mean I can understand that you don't believe in god or a lot of what religion stands for but I don't really understand actively not believing in god. I can understand indifference easily enough. I don't believe in monsters therefor I am indifferent about monsters and the people who do believe in them.

Of course you make a good point about Christian beliefs affecting the every day lives of people who might not believe the same things and I suppose it would be hard to be indifferent when dealing with prejudices and judgments that don't apply to you and your beliefs. Even as a Christian myself I believe in a complete separation of church and state.

Honestly it's all context as far as jokes go. It comes down to the individual person. I wouldn't be offended. I guess the thing is that there are people on such extremes of both sides, that it can be hard to know if someone's joking since there are people who say things that are waaaaaaaay out there and they actually mean them.

By your last paragraph it sounds like you know exactly where we're coming from. If you can contain your beliefs to your own life, then you can have whatever philosophy you want. The problem is when those beliefs start conflicting with modern life and the rest of society. I'll use evolution since it's the most obvious example. It's incompatible with what's in the bible. Some people take the bible literally. Some don't. Some took it literally but have distanced themselves from that stance as evolution became more accepted. The vatican doesn't refute evolution. Others who took it literally went the other direction.

I'm not going to go into the evolution topic again, but this is one example of why we feel a need to speak up/out.

If anyone wants to reply to this could you do it in the mosque topic? I'll read it there. I don't think we need two topics so similar going and octopod wanted this to remain a poll and nothing more.

[AppleQueso]

Honestly it's all context as far as jokes go. It comes down to the individual person. I wouldn't be offended. I guess the thing is that there are people on such extremes of both sides, that it can be hard to know if someone's joking since there are people who say things that are waaaaaaaay out there and they actually mean them.

Poe's Law.

[hailrazer]

Never understood the reasoning behind the statement "The burden of proof lies on a person to prove there is a God". My wife was abandoned and adopted at an early age. She has never met or seen her parents. But the burden of proof is not on her to prove she has parents. She knows she does.

I know someone created everything. The proof is everything exists around us. The burden of proof lies on Science to prove to me it all just happened out of nothing. ( Something science has never been able to duplicate). Until science proves this can happen (something existing where there was absolutely nothing before or something inanimate suddenly becoming alive) I will choose to believe the obvious, something/someone created it.

Nothing else makes sense to me.

But if someone has a differing opinion then me , no big deal. I still lead my life the same either way