Mosques

[AppleQueso]

Atheists don't have a belief system. What's taught in school is based on our best scientific understanding. Most rational people believe in evolution in some capacity. It is the best science has to offer at this time.

I don't understand what causes people to consider evolution so scientific? If science is the process of gathering information and then organizing it into a theory, then religion is equally scientific. Especially considering that there is a significant lack of concrete evidence to conclusively indicate either theory.

How about the fact that despite religious propaganda stating otherwise, evolutionary theory is strongly supported almost unanimously by the entire scientific community? There is an unbelievable amount of concrete evidence that supports evolution, if you care to actually look for it.

Nearly all criticisms of evolution I've seen are either based on misunderstanding of the theory, misrepresentation of evidence, or sometimes fabricating evidence altogether. Oh, and don't forget quote mining, the act of taking a scientist's words out of context to make them appear to be doubting the theory when they actually aren't.

[Jrecee]

I hadn't thought about the concept of "dying for your country" vs "dying for your religion" before. In some ways they're similar. The kamikaze pilots died for an ideal. They believed in their purpose and were willing to die for it. So did the terrorists.

My knowledge of WWII is not great, so I'll use an american anology instead.

An American soldier goes to war to fight. He is fighting because he believes in the freedom America offers. He is willing to die because he believes in the constitution and believes that the people he's fighting are attempting to hurt our way of life.

A taliban soldier goes to war to fight. He is fighting because he believes in his religious ideals. He is willing to die because he believes that is what the quran tells him to do and believes the people he's fighting are attempting to hurt his way of life.

These seem pretty similar and I'm assuming the Kamikaze pilot could fit into the same type of description.

My argument then would simply have to be that one is better than the other. I would have to argue that people should be free to live as they choose, and the beliefs of the taliban soldier are founded in religious bias. I guess it can all come down to fighting for what we believe in, but from an atheist perspective, I just see all these religions fighting against eachother, whereas the atheist is simply put in a defensive position against them all. Observe this drawing I will make. . . now. . . .



None of these religions meld with eachother. If you're one of them, you have to reject the beliefs of the others. There's no way around it. Yet they all come up against atheism. The idea that one of them is actually valid sounds crazy to me when there are so many conflicts between them. Yet atheism simply rejects them all.

I guess my point is that we all have an ideal idea of the world. If religion was set to the side, or if for example, everyone on earth suddenly became atheist, we would still have ideals. There'd still be wars. But imo a direction to take humanity is a cause more worth fighting for than arguing which of the completely incompatible religions might be right.

So the kamikaze pilot, sacrificing himself at a time of global war, trying to protect his friends, family, and people of his country, gets my vote.

[Jrecee]

I notice I didn't actual mention how the Taliban guy's religious ideals are directly connected with his sense of country. I guess my answer to that would be: That's my problem with religion. It's powerful and dangerous. It shapes the direction of entire countries. When a total whackjob who disputes the holocaust ever happening is enriching uranium, it's a very very bad thing.

[jeffro11]

That's really what I was trying to say before. I was not trying to say that belonging to a religion makes one a better person, or that religious people are more moral than non-religious people or anything.

That cleared it up, thank you. Your post did come off as rather brash. I was merely returning the "favor".

What I don't understand is why many people must feel a need to be one or "the other" so much and be blinded of what really matters in life. Life.

[AppleQueso]

None of these religions meld with eachother. If you're one of them, you have to reject the beliefs of the others. There's no way around it. Yet they all come up against atheism. The idea that one of them is actually valid sounds crazy to me when there are so many conflicts between them. Yet atheism simply rejects them all.

This bit has always played an extremely huge part on why I became atheist to begin with. It wasn't out of a disdain for religion, just merely not being able to actually convince myself that any of it was, well, real.

[jeffro11]

None of these religions meld with eachother. If you're one of them, you have to reject the beliefs of the others. There's no way around it. Yet they all come up against atheism. The idea that one of them is actually valid sounds crazy to me when there are so many conflicts between them. Yet atheism simply rejects them all.

This bit has always played an extremely huge part on why I became atheist to begin with. It wasn't out of a disdain for religion, just merely not being able to actually convince myself that any of it was, well, real.

This.

I did the same in my youth and was punished for my thoughts. Because of the "one or the other" attitude I was kicked out of my home. I refused to go to church or practice the religion I was brought up with and thus got kicked out. Hopefully this can explain my stance a bit better on the matter. It's bitter.

When I think of religion I think of 2 things; bigotry and hypocrisy.

[Dylan]

Atheists don't have a belief system. What's taught in school is based on our best scientific understanding. Most rational people believe in evolution in some capacity. It is the best science has to offer at this time.

I don't understand what causes people to consider evolution so scientific? If science is the process of gathering information and then organizing it into a theory, then religion is equally scientific. Especially considering that there is a significant lack of concrete evidence to conclusively indicate either theory.

How about the fact that despite religious propaganda stating otherwise, evolutionary theory is strongly supported almost unanimously by the entire scientific community? There is an unbelievable amount of concrete evidence that supports evolution, if you care to actually look for it.

Nearly all criticisms of evolution I've seen are either based on misunderstanding of the theory, misrepresentation of evidence, or sometimes fabricating evidence altogether. Oh, and don't forget quote mining, the act of taking a scientist's words out of context to make them appear to be doubting the theory when they actually aren't.

If you could direct me to a source that accurately shows this evidence, I would be very interested in looking it over. I hear about evidence a lot, but I've never seen anything past a couple deformed human skulls.

It's also important to acknowledge that some religions or offshoots of religions to take into account evolution as fact, evolution is more the opposite of creationism than of religion itself.

[AppleQueso]

I don't understand what causes people to consider evolution so scientific? If science is the process of gathering information and then organizing it into a theory, then religion is equally scientific. Especially considering that there is a significant lack of concrete evidence to conclusively indicate either theory.

How about the fact that despite religious propaganda stating otherwise, evolutionary theory is strongly supported almost unanimously by the entire scientific community? There is an unbelievable amount of concrete evidence that supports evolution, if you care to actually look for it.

Nearly all criticisms of evolution I've seen are either based on misunderstanding of the theory, misrepresentation of evidence, or sometimes fabricating evidence altogether. Oh, and don't forget quote mining, the act of taking a scientist's words out of context to make them appear to be doubting the theory when they actually aren't.

If you could direct me to a source that accurately shows this evidence, I would be very interested in looking it over. I hear about evidence a lot, but I've never seen anything past a couple deformed human skulls.

It's also important to acknowledge that some religions or offshoots of religions to take into account evolution as fact, evolution is more the opposite of creationism than of religion itself.

talkorigins.org has a lot of info. Although much of it circulates around refuting creationist claims and general misconceptions about evolution, it's probably the most comprehensive website I know of off the top of my head.

EDIT: specifically, http://talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/ is a good place to start

[Jrecee]

It's also important to acknowledge that some religions or offshoots of religions to take into account evolution as fact

This, imo, is one of the massive flaws with religion I see. They reject things until the evidence is rediculously overwhelming and they begin to look crazy for not believing it, then they quietly adapt it into their belief system. Humans have empathy born into them, and deep down we know that so much that is taught by religion is wrong. So we play the pick n' choose game. We believe some of it, and not other stuff. When it supports our bigotry, we go full force with it. When we decide "hmm, well maybe homosexuals are okayish" we ignore the parts that say they're going to hell. Then there's the extremist side who never left the fire and brimstone age who try really hard to hinder progress.

People swear up and down the bible and its teaching is divine and written by people who knew what they were talking about, and then they go and make "interpretive amendments". They don't actually change the bible, but they twist what it says to be interpreted differently. This is the same way people twist islam into killing anyone who isn't muslim.

[Jrecee]

talkorigins.org has a lot of info. Although much of it circulates around refuting creationist claims and general misconceptions about evolution, it's probably the most comprehensive website I know of off the top of my head.

Do you know any good books on evolution that aren't written for people getting their doctorate in evolutionary biology?