Iraq

[mason]

I'm tired of being a hypocrite like everyone else, saying they hate the war and it's wrong but they do nothing about it. So i thought of a simple an idea that could stop the war. The vietnam war was ended by congress slashing the funds going to pay for the war. No war No money.
So tommorrow at my school I'm going to pass around a petition asking people to sign saying they want the upcoming bill on sending money to Iraq to be voted NO and send it to my local congressman.

So if you are tired of feeling helpless, then please do the same thing. At your college or workplace!

[racketboy]

Just a heads-up: if this thread turns into a heated political debate, I'm closing it.

[D.D.D.]

Just a heads-up: if this thread turns into a heated political debate, I'm closing it.

Seems reasonable... I don't do politics anyways. I live in a world governed by people that decide everything via roshambo~

[Mozgus]

BLUES VERSUS REDS! LEFTS VERSUS RIGHTS! LIBERALS VERSUS CONSERVATIVES!

Is anyone else tired of this bullshit playground battle? And that's all I'm going to say.

[racketboy]

BLUES VERSUS REDS! LEFTS VERSUS RIGHTS! LIBERALS VERSUS CONSERVATIVES!

Is anyone else tired of this bullshit playground battle? And that's all I'm going to say.

I say we nuke all the current politicians, democrats and republicans, and start over with just the Constitution as the basis for a new government that actually works for the people of the country. Who's with me?!?

[ubelaffe]

*raises glass in the air towards racket

in all honesty, pulling out early is a bad idea (that's what she said) because of the added dangers it brings to our boys and girls in the sandbox. Regardless of your feelings towards going in the first place, removing them anytime short of ready is not a good idea.

just as a side note - I don't want this to turn into a heated political discussion. While I don't support your views Mason, I think you've got the right idea behind how to do things and I applaud your use of the proper channels and for voicing your opinion in a decent way. It's refreshing.

[racketboy]

The way I look at it, I don't know all the details of the war -- only the military officials know enough to make proper decisions. While Bush probably isn't informed enough, it seems like the proper officials are supporting the current situation. As long as the opinions of the military officials are steering the plan instead of politicians, I'm relatively happy. It's just unfortunate that it has turned out the way it has.

[extrarice]

My two cents:

There are two different problems that got us where we are now:

In my opinion, the US invaded under false pretenses. Instead of letting the pros and cons of Iraq stand on their own, I believe this administration rode the public's emotions of panic and revenge following the Sept 11 attack and forced the issue. At that time, Congress did not want to look "soft on terrorism" and went along with it.

Secondly, the military completely did not understand the political and tribal structure of Iraq. Expecting the tribes of Iraq to get along and form a fair, just government, for all the Iraqi citizens after Hussein's government was destroyed is complete lunacy. Creating that kind of power vacuum in a political and societal environment that is structured like most middle-eastern cultures is a recipe for massive civil war. This is the greatest tragedy of this war. So much death and destruction could have been avoided if the military had truly understood what they were getting in to and planned for the resulting power struggle.

That being said, an immediate pull-out from the area is even more idiotic. People tend to remember when you bully your way in to their house, break everything in an attempt to fix something, and leave when you can't figure it out. However, military might will not stabilize Iraq. A lasting peace and functional government will only be achieved through political negotiations between the tribes.

[racketboy]

In my opinion, the US invaded under false pretenses. Instead of letting the pros and cons of Iraq stand on their own, I believe this administration rode the public's emotions of panic and revenge following the Sept 11 attack and forced the issue. At that time, Congress did not want to look "soft on terrorism" and went along with it.

Secondly, the military completely did not understand the political and tribal structure of Iraq. Expecting the tribes of Iraq to get along and form a fair, just government, for all the Iraqi citizens after Hussein's government was destroyed is complete lunacy. Creating that kind of power vacuum in a political and societal environment that is structured like most middle-eastern cultures is a recipe for massive civil war. This is the greatest tragedy of this war. So much death and destruction could have been avoided if the military had truly understood what they were getting in to and planned for the resulting power struggle.

While that may be true, it's a little late to do anything about it now...
The whole terrorism thing also spurred such out-of-whack stuff like the Patriot Act. (Don't you love the lovely names for crappy legislature?)

[Mozgus]

While that may be true, it's a little late to do anything about it now...
The whole terrorism thing also spurred such out-of-whack stuff like the Patriot Act. (Don't you love the lovely names for crappy legislature?)

No, and I don't love the bullshit I had to go through to get a new bank account, thanks to said Act.