Input "Improvements"

Post by **philipofmacedon** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:10 am

So I've been reading the reviews for Lair this week and it sounds like what could be a decent game has been marred by the controls, specifically the poor implementation of the sixaxis motion sensing. It got me to thinking, does it seem like the industry is innovating for the sake of innovation and not addressing a legitimate deficiency in the way we play games?

I'll tip my hand by admitting that so far I'm not a very big wii fan. I'd just as soon press a button than have to swing my arms. Wii tennis seemed boring and shallow compared to mario tennis on the 64, which preceded it by a good decade. I find analog sticks and D-pads quite usable for my games. Overall I just have a hard time seeing how some genres like shumps and platformers could even be possible (let's not even talk about better) with motion sensing controllers. I can't imagine trying to play the metal slug anthology by using the nunchuck and wii remote. It sounds like Nintendo has pretty much admitted you'll be playing SSBB with a GC controller. Incidentally this is one of the upcoming Wii games that most excites me.

I don't know anyone with a PS3 but it just seems like the whole sixaxis thing was jumping on the bandwagon for them. I'm not too thrilled about the arms race between Sony and Microsoft but Nintendo's focus on the motion sensing just seems like a gimmick to hide the inadequacy of their machine. All this talk about thinking differently just doesn't really resonate with me. They really haven't avoided the new technology bandwagon; they've just replaced terms like "floating point performance" and "blast processing" with "motion-sensing."

Thinking differently would be making a game like Symphony of the Night when everyone else is going 3-D. Viewtiful Joe anyone? We have more than enough existing technology for them to make exciting and quality games. Katamari Damacy was an amazing PS2 game, so what if it didn't push the hardware. Let's see a 2-D sonic game like the Genesis ones that pushes the Wii hardware and recaptures the speed of Sonic and then I will gladly throw my money to Nintendo. Zelda Four Swords was something like what I'm getting at, the old but with the new, although it was prevented from being an easily enjoyable party game by being a vehicle for GBA connectivity. Different and new isn't better, better is better.

Maybe I'm just totally off on this but it seems like crafting quality 2-D experiences is a cost effective thing. Going 3-D is a huge jump in complexity. So maybe modern kids won't all go for it, at least developers have much less overhead. Maybe even enough that it works for the bottom line. Perhaps this is why the GBA and DS are such successes? Couldn't this thinking be brought back into the living room? If the virtual console is shoveling nostalgia couldn't it also acclimate users to more of the same old school type of games? You just downloaded and enjoyed some classic Mega man, and behold, Nintendo's got some more awesome platform adventures for you.

My experience with the DS is limited as well. Does having a stylus really give the system it's character? Or is it simply high quality games in 2-D that we crave? Maybe I just live in the past but most of the games I've really enjoyed had less to do with fancy control schemes and more to do with the games themselves. Things like level design, game play mechanics, music, plot, graphics, balance, simplicity but also depth, are of more concern to me. I mean it's great that Phantom Hourglass is coming out but I really would be happier with another game in the vein of Link to the Past.

Am I dead wrong about all this? It's late and the end of the week and I think I'm just ranting at this point.

What do you guys think?

P.S. Don't let anyone think I hate 3-D games. I enjoy lots of FPS, light gun games, and platformers. But since I'm given more than enough 3-D experiences it's the quality 2D stuff for which I yearn. Also there's something charming about sprites that isn't lost with age. I'd rather look at SNES games than PS1 ones.

Post by **Raz1r** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:36 am

There was never a legitimate deficiency in the way we play games, and they aren't "innovating" at all. Look 20 years back, there was a product called U-force for the NES (IIRC) which tried to turn motions into button presses. Hell, I remember playing a lightgun game quite a few years ago that had you shooting baddies while ducking and stuff. Your actual movements translated into the angle the camera was at. Have you ever played the boxing game that you can duck and turn, then throw punches with the glove controllers?

It's not the Idea that is new, it's the technology.

Post by **Droid party** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:25 am

Well said philipofmacedon. I agree with pretty much everything ,including trying bring back some of the old games in 2d that actually takes advantage of the hardware. I'm sick of seeing compilations of all the old games I loved as a kid released into the stores only to see them in bargain bins a couple of weeks later, rather than making endless compilations hows about making new games that incorporate the things that made them great ( like the game play mechanics)into something newer and prettier to try to capture the minds of the younger gaming market and show us older gamers that we haven't been forgotten.

Post by **gradualmeltdown** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:59 pm

The DS is the best system since Dreamcast IMO, maybe better considering its long term success and software support. It is mostly because the games are based upon quality gameplay instead of graphics. This does include stylus support and many games are BETTER on DS than other platforms because of stylus. Advance Wars DS is amazing because of the stylus and I could list many others. That said several of my favorite games like Mario Kart DS really do not benefit from the stylus.

Its easy to say the DS touchscreen wasn't so innovative now, and it was a simple idea using old technology. However, if you look at portable devices it is a giant race to add touch screen functionality. I-pod Touch and I-phone, Tablet PC's and alot of other devices released after DS benefit from touchscreen control. Nintendo was ahead of the curve on touch screen interface.

Wii does seem gimmicky right now, and using the controller for music has taught me why. The accelerometer and IR are very hard to program and the data they transmit is very hard to filter and make useful. Creating 1:1 controls will be very hard, and thats what most people envision Wii to be. Currently it really isn't a 1:1 control wand, it actually is more of a gesture based controller. Pre-set gestures are boring, and often might as well be button commands.

example : Metroid Prime Corruption

In Metroid Prime 3 there are several items that allow you to manipulate the environment using gestures. You remove items from you path or swing using this item. The gestures are simple, and no matter what you do the result is the same. Pull some trash out of your way, but you can't throw it left or right up or down, it just knows you wanted to throw in some direction. No 1:1 physics. Might as well be a button

All of that said, I really think developers will figure out how to make 1:1 work in time. Its going to take advanced techniques of filtering and blending motion and IR data. DS developement took a while to get rolling, and it ended up great. I think Wii will be even more challenging to developers. If someone really tries to make a full featured game envisioned only for Wii we may all change our minds. "No More Heroes" and "Mario Galaxy" could do it.

I'm rooting for Nintendo because Microsoft sucks, and Nintendo is the only company with the balls to fight them right out of the industry. My 360 is in the shop for the 2nd time. Wish Sega had survived, they would have us playing holographic displays already

Post by **ImportBoy** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:18 pm

The ability to use the PSP as a wireless / wired PS3 controller I would be neat to implement. I very much liked the Dreamcast controller with the -Visual- Memory Unit and I see using the PSP along those lines. For example perhaps as your flying your ship through space - communications are routed through the PSP screen?

Post by **wyatt** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:35 am

Speaking of PSP, Sony rep told me the PSP redesign would be able to display on the TV but "you have to buy the cord seperately and it won't display games, just anything else the PSP does." I'm a nice guy so I didn't ask "Then who cares?"

Post by **aaron** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:43 am

nintendo seems to be playing their own game (so to speak) with this round of consoles and i think it will pay off well for them. the reason i think so? my mother, who hasn't played a video game since centipede in college almost 30 years ago, wants a wii after playing one. she went from saying "i don't understand all these new games coming out" to "this is really, really fun!"

nintendo says "yep, got another one." with the accessibility and affordability (relatively speaking of course) of the wii, nintendo will likely clean up, not because they are innovative and bringing new technology to the hardcore gaming niche, they are bringing simple, fun, and accessible gaming experiences to literally everyone who can pick up a wiimote.

personally, i'm sold. plus i'd rather play wii sports than pretty much everything on ps3 (except maybe resistance and dynasty warriors gundam)