Who does better? Who lasts longer?(not in the sack you perv)And finally who is more skilled?
For me I think the generation after me is in a little trouble. When I was a little kid I got to enjoy nintendo at its fullest and then not too much further down the road a fucking snes. Yeah I remember how we had atari and believe me I played a game called King's Towers more hours than I ever logged on the Snes entirely. Like I talk to new age gamers and they all have problems with games that are not really hard at all. Sure enough they are good at fps and sports games but at other things then not really. Yeah I know this little 12 year old kid who is like a little brother to me (basically because I have known his family for like 10 years) and I remember him taking out top clan members back in the day of Counter Strike ver. 1.1. Now a little older he is so good and can easily adapt. And yes he is asian. So there are the few exceptions.
I think there should be a tournament of the sort. To see which generation of gaming really challenged the gamers and not just robbed them of the money in their pockets. I am sure racketboy can get down on the classics but what about todays games? To be honest.....I think through all the shit old school gamers have gone through, the games can be a little easy to predict some times. I mean back then it was all about the gameplay. Well mostly. But yeah. They tried almost everything. Shoot that to trigger this. Jump there to reveal the hidden path. Fall off the second ledge and you will be warped to somewhere else. Now a days its all...shoot that guy and uh move forward and shoot that guy and well wash rinse repeat. So what do you guys think??
OLD SCHOOL PLAYERS AND NEW SCHOOL FOOLS
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tHePhAnToM!??!
- 24-bit
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 3:14 am
OLD SCHOOL PLAYERS AND NEW SCHOOL FOOLS
"I'm killin you 'cause i can!"
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lordofduct
- Next-Gen
- Posts: 2907
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:57 pm
- Location: West Palm Beach
@ pocket -
i agree, my friends love playing these 3D fighters... I get my ass handed to me everytime. They love these games and kick hardcore ass at it, but you put them in Eternal Champions against me... dead. I haven't played the game in like 5 years, and I handed their ass right back to them. Same with Marvel Vs. Capcom 2... what the gay?
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@ forum
But you know, it probably has to do more with those are the games they practiced on, the ones they play the most. Of ALL my friends, only 3 ever really hardcore played 2D games back in the day, the understand the mechanics behind it. They can keep up with me in a 2D game... vice versa, I played mostly 2D games, still do (shit the game I'm making is 3D rendered, but still plays 2D), I can't keep up in 3D games. FPS's, 3D fighters, even 3D racers... I'm not as proficient at them, nor do I bother taking the time to practice them.
I don't think it's how much skill was required for each, it's just different playing fields. It's like pinning football players against American football players. Sounds the same, there both sports, but there two completely different games.
They each have their own hurdles... 2D games tend to be faster paced, more twitch hand action. Where as 3D games is more figuring out how to smoothly move through the psuedo 3D world, and watch whats come up behind you in blind spots (and in the fighters the combos have gotten much more complex... think Virtua Fighter). They each have their merits, and their downfalls... one isn't more skill then the other.
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I do think though that the 3D world has lost its creativity though... but it probably doesn't have to do with the actual 3D, and that the gaming world has become MUCH more lucrative and money driven. So they sell/make what they know will sell. Just like the movie industry, find a formula that works, and then tweak over and over just enough to sell another version of it.
though I guarantee there are people out there whole say the same about 2D... what are the big 2D genre's really?
2D -
platform
shm'up
RPG (wasn't even really big until 3D)
action adventure
fighter (and it was only really nearing the death of the 2D era... the 16bit era that is)
puzzle
3D -
FPS and third person shooter (i put the two together... they are kinda the same, just tweaked... kinda like the various platformers out there)
sim games (life sims, flight sims, all kinds of sims... not in reference to the sim franchise)
Fighters (really took off hardcore here)
RPG and MMORPG
action adventure / platform (platformers evolved more into the action adventure role after Mario64... story driven open worlds)
puzzle
it really looks the same to me kinda... of course there are sparce dashes of other style games, but for the most part both generations held the a very common stash in style of games.
i agree, my friends love playing these 3D fighters... I get my ass handed to me everytime. They love these games and kick hardcore ass at it, but you put them in Eternal Champions against me... dead. I haven't played the game in like 5 years, and I handed their ass right back to them. Same with Marvel Vs. Capcom 2... what the gay?
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@ forum
But you know, it probably has to do more with those are the games they practiced on, the ones they play the most. Of ALL my friends, only 3 ever really hardcore played 2D games back in the day, the understand the mechanics behind it. They can keep up with me in a 2D game... vice versa, I played mostly 2D games, still do (shit the game I'm making is 3D rendered, but still plays 2D), I can't keep up in 3D games. FPS's, 3D fighters, even 3D racers... I'm not as proficient at them, nor do I bother taking the time to practice them.
I don't think it's how much skill was required for each, it's just different playing fields. It's like pinning football players against American football players. Sounds the same, there both sports, but there two completely different games.
They each have their own hurdles... 2D games tend to be faster paced, more twitch hand action. Where as 3D games is more figuring out how to smoothly move through the psuedo 3D world, and watch whats come up behind you in blind spots (and in the fighters the combos have gotten much more complex... think Virtua Fighter). They each have their merits, and their downfalls... one isn't more skill then the other.
----
I do think though that the 3D world has lost its creativity though... but it probably doesn't have to do with the actual 3D, and that the gaming world has become MUCH more lucrative and money driven. So they sell/make what they know will sell. Just like the movie industry, find a formula that works, and then tweak over and over just enough to sell another version of it.
though I guarantee there are people out there whole say the same about 2D... what are the big 2D genre's really?
2D -
platform
shm'up
RPG (wasn't even really big until 3D)
action adventure
fighter (and it was only really nearing the death of the 2D era... the 16bit era that is)
puzzle
3D -
FPS and third person shooter (i put the two together... they are kinda the same, just tweaked... kinda like the various platformers out there)
sim games (life sims, flight sims, all kinds of sims... not in reference to the sim franchise)
Fighters (really took off hardcore here)
RPG and MMORPG
action adventure / platform (platformers evolved more into the action adventure role after Mario64... story driven open worlds)
puzzle
it really looks the same to me kinda... of course there are sparce dashes of other style games, but for the most part both generations held the a very common stash in style of games.
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Gamerforlife
- Next-Gen
- Posts: 10184
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:15 pm
- Location: Florida
Personally, I would avoid talking about our generation being better than the current one. That really just makes us sound like a bunch of old men with nothing better to do but talk about our glory days. You know the silly old guy who talks about walking for miles in deep snow to get to school. Yeah, that's what we sound like.
Games like Shinobi on the PS 2, Ninja Gaiden Black, Gunvalkyrie, Viewtiful Joe or Devil May Cry 3 are taking modern gamers to the limit and the stuff I've seen some people pull off in these games humbles me. You go watch an online video of someone getting TRUE S rankings(represented on the records screen as two S letters side by side) on every stage of Devil May Cry 3 on the hardest difficulty setting and then tell me that today's gamers have no skill. This is the only way to really unlock everything in that game. It requires players to be fast, not get hit, master MULTIPLE combat styles and switch them on the fly and...well, it's just pretty tough okay. On the highest setting more enemies are added in each stage, and they become MUCH faster, MUCH more aggressive and MUCH harder hitting. There was a whole community of DMC 3 gamers actually rising to the challenge and posting their vids online.
Go online and find videos of players getting insanely high scores on Mercenaries in Resident Evil 4, getting S ranks and 100% percent shot down ratio in Panzer Dragoon Orta, Getting those viewtiful ranks on Viewtiful Joe, etc. There's people out there running through FF X with zero leveling(no sphere grid),people leaving their Xbox 360s on for FOURTEEN HOURS on survivor mode without saving or dying just to get the last unlockable in Dead Rising. There's something like a 300 floor survival mode in Onimusha Dawn of Dreams with progressive harder enemies and no saving allowed and I could go on and on. There are modern gamers accomplishing these challenges. There ARE players with some SERIOUS skills among today's generation, not to mention patience(something I am having in smaller amounts as I get older)
So there is no lack of skilled gamers out there. People who say all of today's games are easy, are simply avoiding the ones that aren't. Sure, on average, games today are easier, but there are still hardcore games out there and many young gamers who are drawn to them. Ninja Gaiden on the Xbox and Devil May Cry 3 have been very lucrative.
I don't really like this whole elitist line of thinking that some older gamers seems to have with regards to our skill. As lordofduct pointed out, so what if many of us rock at 2-d games? If the new generation can school us at 3-d games, then we're not exactly better than them, just have different skills.
Games like Shinobi on the PS 2, Ninja Gaiden Black, Gunvalkyrie, Viewtiful Joe or Devil May Cry 3 are taking modern gamers to the limit and the stuff I've seen some people pull off in these games humbles me. You go watch an online video of someone getting TRUE S rankings(represented on the records screen as two S letters side by side) on every stage of Devil May Cry 3 on the hardest difficulty setting and then tell me that today's gamers have no skill. This is the only way to really unlock everything in that game. It requires players to be fast, not get hit, master MULTIPLE combat styles and switch them on the fly and...well, it's just pretty tough okay. On the highest setting more enemies are added in each stage, and they become MUCH faster, MUCH more aggressive and MUCH harder hitting. There was a whole community of DMC 3 gamers actually rising to the challenge and posting their vids online.
Go online and find videos of players getting insanely high scores on Mercenaries in Resident Evil 4, getting S ranks and 100% percent shot down ratio in Panzer Dragoon Orta, Getting those viewtiful ranks on Viewtiful Joe, etc. There's people out there running through FF X with zero leveling(no sphere grid),people leaving their Xbox 360s on for FOURTEEN HOURS on survivor mode without saving or dying just to get the last unlockable in Dead Rising. There's something like a 300 floor survival mode in Onimusha Dawn of Dreams with progressive harder enemies and no saving allowed and I could go on and on. There are modern gamers accomplishing these challenges. There ARE players with some SERIOUS skills among today's generation, not to mention patience(something I am having in smaller amounts as I get older)
So there is no lack of skilled gamers out there. People who say all of today's games are easy, are simply avoiding the ones that aren't. Sure, on average, games today are easier, but there are still hardcore games out there and many young gamers who are drawn to them. Ninja Gaiden on the Xbox and Devil May Cry 3 have been very lucrative.
I don't really like this whole elitist line of thinking that some older gamers seems to have with regards to our skill. As lordofduct pointed out, so what if many of us rock at 2-d games? If the new generation can school us at 3-d games, then we're not exactly better than them, just have different skills.
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Gamerforlife
- Next-Gen
- Posts: 10184
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:15 pm
- Location: Florida
But I'll tell you this, tHePhAnToM!??
The kind of skilless gamers you are talking about, seem to be the ones writing video game reviews on major websites and magazines. You'll find REAL gamers though just be visiting gaming forums or sites like this one. And yes, believe me, they're not all old schoolers like us. There are young skilled gamers out there today who would do you proud.
The kind of skilless gamers you are talking about, seem to be the ones writing video game reviews on major websites and magazines. You'll find REAL gamers though just be visiting gaming forums or sites like this one. And yes, believe me, they're not all old schoolers like us. There are young skilled gamers out there today who would do you proud.
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executioner
- Next-Gen
- Posts: 1116
- Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:54 pm
- Location: Panama
Highly agree with you! There are some challenging games out there still, fewer but still there are. Game today are actually more forgiving and less frustrating, which is very good because sometimes you want to would stop playing a game for how hard it was. I don't have that much spare time to play video games as I used to so so I don't complain that much. The good thing is they still make some damn tough games that require much practice and mastering.Gamerforlife wrote:
Games like Shinobi on the PS 2, Ninja Gaiden Black, Gunvalkyrie, Viewtiful Joe or Devil May Cry 3 are taking modern gamers to the limit and the stuff I've seen some people pull off in these games humbles me. You go watch an online video of someone getting TRUE S rankings(represented on the records screen as two S letters side by side) on every stage of Devil May Cry 3 on the hardest difficulty setting and then tell me that today's gamers have no skill. This is the only way to really unlock everything in that game. It requires players to be fast, not get hit, master MULTIPLE combat styles and switch them on the fly and...well, it's just pretty tough okay. On the highest setting more enemies are added in each stage, and they become MUCH faster, MUCH more aggressive and MUCH harder hitting. There was a whole community of DMC 3 gamers actually rising to the challenge and posting their vids online.
I played Shinobi on PS2 and almost throwed my control at the wall. Recommend you play Urban Reign on PS2, its a good hard scream at the tv kind of fighting game... 100 levels I think. Right now I'm playing Pursuit Force on PSP, another hard game. There's still hope for the young ones
and if I have kids rest assured I'll make em play those hard old school games if they want me to buy playstation 12 or xbox 1800, and hope they kick my ass too.
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Pullmyfinger
- Next-Gen
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:49 pm
- Location: Orange County
- Contact:
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tHePhAnToM!??!
- 24-bit
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 3:14 am
The old school gamers I am talking about are the ones who lived and played the first gen and are still rocking at the current gen of gaming. When I was playing battlegrounds there was a guy that was 58 years old and kicking mucho ass. I also stated that there are the handful or two of modern gamers that exceed most expectations. Yes games like Shinobi and Contra Shattered Solider and Devil May Cry 3 were hard. And gamers from any generation would find them frustrating. Personally only the last boss in Shinobi aggravated me. Beat that game in one day. Yeah at first I thought stringing all the dash combos was a little insane but shit thats the only way to get the level coins in order to unlock the white shinobi who is the shit!!!! Devil May Cry 3. That game had some really frustrating points. But I remember playing Devil May Cry on dante must die mode and all day long I would practice beating virgil without getting hit. I did it quite a few times. I would also practice with the levels with the time limits. You know, when the time ends the enemies become fucking superenemies.
I did the same thing for DMC3. I am just one of those gamers that like to push themselves to the next level if there is one. Not to brag about it..just to be proud of the accomplishment. And just for the record....viewtiful joe fucking rocks so much ass. That is one of the best games (1 and 2) that i have ever slow mo'ed with. I like to play games not just look at them. Most of gamers today are pretty much the " if it doesnt look pretty i wont play it". I grew up playing games, i do not think i will ever outgrow them. I have always wanted to be involved in gaming. I know some kids that do not appreciate anything before the ps1 and n64 era.
I will finish with this. The kid I mentioned before that is a very excellent current gen gamer owes his skill to the old school gaming. I remember when they had just got a playstation and would play games all day and night. He would be in his room playing super mario bros and would switch to super metroid. He maybe a current gen gamer but he really does have the old school gaming experience. Even these days, I will go to that family's house and they have a 360 but he and i will jam on the dreamcast or snes. Mostly the dreamcast. And it is funny because we will talk about video games but not just about "games", its more of an in depth convo about how games are and similar topics we discuss in this forum. And he is only in junior high. Its gamers like these that really impress me. Makes me happy to know that there are still real gamers out there and not just some 11 year old shit talker with a mic and a bed wetting problem.
I did the same thing for DMC3. I am just one of those gamers that like to push themselves to the next level if there is one. Not to brag about it..just to be proud of the accomplishment. And just for the record....viewtiful joe fucking rocks so much ass. That is one of the best games (1 and 2) that i have ever slow mo'ed with. I like to play games not just look at them. Most of gamers today are pretty much the " if it doesnt look pretty i wont play it". I grew up playing games, i do not think i will ever outgrow them. I have always wanted to be involved in gaming. I know some kids that do not appreciate anything before the ps1 and n64 era.
I will finish with this. The kid I mentioned before that is a very excellent current gen gamer owes his skill to the old school gaming. I remember when they had just got a playstation and would play games all day and night. He would be in his room playing super mario bros and would switch to super metroid. He maybe a current gen gamer but he really does have the old school gaming experience. Even these days, I will go to that family's house and they have a 360 but he and i will jam on the dreamcast or snes. Mostly the dreamcast. And it is funny because we will talk about video games but not just about "games", its more of an in depth convo about how games are and similar topics we discuss in this forum. And he is only in junior high. Its gamers like these that really impress me. Makes me happy to know that there are still real gamers out there and not just some 11 year old shit talker with a mic and a bed wetting problem.
"I'm killin you 'cause i can!"