EDGE Presents The 100 Best Videogames (Magazine)

[Gamerforlife]

Some more stuff I noticed:

Ikaruga, but not Radiant Silvergun? In fact, there's little Treasure presence on this list

Jet Set Radio Future is here, but not the better Jet Grind Radio from the Dreamcast

Can we stick to console games with these lists? PC games should have their own lists

Advance Wars? That's a waste of a spot. There's better strategy games and this is a portable system game. See my comment on PC games

Street Fighter Anniversary? WTF? How bout just listing STREET FIGHTER II, the game that started the 2-d fighting craze? Instead they list some compilation?

Is it just me, or is there no Sonic on this list? Or Megaman? or any Castlevania game besides Symphony of the Night

Beat'em ups? Didn't notice any

No Panzer Dragoon Saga? No Final Fantasy X?No pre-Playstation Final Fantasy games?No Final Fantasy Tactics?

Disgaea? Ok, that's fine, but the second one was better and is not on the list

Of all the Metal Gear Solid games they pick the second one, which is the most crticized by fans?

Shenmue? Doesn't belong on the list

WarioWare and Katamari? Great games, but they don't belong on the list

Manhunt? WTF?

Killer 7? It wasn't THAT good

Ninja Gaiden Black? Um, you know there were other classic NG games before this one

Guitaroo Man? Ok, cool game but hello, PaRappa? The granddaddy of rhythm games? Or how about DDR?

This is a Noob list

[Mozgus]

Yup, noob list.

[RadarScope1]

That's a really good point Gamerforlife made about the comps/remakes. The original games should be considered whenever possible. In general it seems the whole scope of gaming wasn't considered. Just the newer stuff. What's really strange about that is most other "All Time" lists in other forms of media give way too much credence to older stuff, ie, best rock albums lists are Beatles and Dylan heavy at the top, and all time movie lists always put Citizen Kane, Casablanca etc. at the top.

Are these guys just graphics whores, you think?

Overall, EGM's 200 Greatest Games of the Time list is the best "all time" video game that I've read. Sure, there are a lot of games/place numbers that you could argue, but at least most of the selections make sense, and they stick to console games (with a few great handheld games tossed in there). Here's the Top 10 from that list:

10. Pong (Arcade)
9. Grand Theft Auto III (PS2)
8. Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
7. Space Invaders (Arcade)
6. Super Mario 64 (N64)
5. The Legend Zelda (NES)
4. Tetris (Multiplatform)
3. Street Fighter II (Arcade)
2. Pac-Man (Arcade)
1. Super Mario Bros. (NES)

I just noticed: again, with the two Zeldas. This was compiled before Twilight Princess was released. I personally don't have a problem with that placement, but I am a Zelda fan, and I don't think a lot of people on this board would identify as such. The EGM list was greatest games "of their time" and I think the original Zelda was more of an innovation in its day than any other Z since.

[Yackom]

Eh. The list did its job, it pissed people off enough to get people talking about it, and bring people to their site. You got to remember these lists are designed for such things.

[lordofduct]

Eh. The list did its job, it pissed people off enough to get people talking about it, and bring people to their site. You got to remember these lists are designed for such things.

The thing is it isn't on their site... it's in a book. Others have posted the list, minus whatever lengthy comment that is in the book. So, nope, they really get nothing out of it... I'm not buying this mag.

[Gamerforlife]

That's a really good point Gamerforlife made about the comps/remakes. The original games should be considered whenever possible. In general it seems the whole scope of gaming wasn't considered. Just the newer stuff. What's really strange about that is most other "All Time" lists in other forms of media give way too much credence to older stuff, ie, best rock albums lists are Beatles and Dylan heavy at the top, and all time movie lists always put Citizen Kane, Casablanca etc. at the top.

Are these guys just graphics whores, you think?

Overall, EGM's 200 Greatest Games of the Time list is the best "all time" video game that I've read. Sure, there are a lot of games/place numbers that you could argue, but at least most of the selections make sense, and they stick to console games (with a few great handheld games tossed in there). Here's the Top 10 from that list:

10. Pong (Arcade)
9. Grand Theft Auto III (PS2)
8. Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
7. Space Invaders (Arcade)
6. Super Mario 64 (N64)
5. The Legend Zelda (NES)
4. Tetris (Multiplatform)
3. Street Fighter II (Arcade)
2. Pac-Man (Arcade)
1. Super Mario Bros. (NES)

I just noticed: again, with the two Zeldas. This was compiled before Twilight Princess was released. I personally don't have a problem with that placement, but I am a Zelda fan, and I don't think a lot of people on this board would identify as such. The EGM list was greatest games "of their time" and I think the original Zelda was more of an innovation in its day than any other Z since.

Few things here I'd like to comment on. As you said, I have noticed that best of lists for music do indeed seem to focus heavily on older stuff while for some reason it is the opposite with gaming lists.

Graphic whores? Perhaps, what I have noticed about many gaming websites today is that appreciation for older games is dwindling. Frequently, when a retro game is re-released or a retro compilation comes out you can expect the usual nonsense from reviewers about how the game doesn't hold up against modern games graphically or how the gameplay is too simplistic or "too hard". This says a couple things about modern reviewers:

1. Graphics matter more than anything. See Odin Sphere with its shallow, simplistic combat and repetitive stages, enemies and bosses. Coupled with the fact that it plays in 2-d rather than 3-d, this game was ripe for a critical lashing. However, it's 2-d graphics were of an unusually high quality so of course it received rave reviews. I actually read two reviews where the writers blatantly said they were scoring the game high in spite of its flaws because of its amazing visuals.

2. Modern gamers have little appreciation for challenging games and have forgotten, or in the case of new gamers never learned, how to play well. This is evidenced by how frequently they call the old games "cheap"or how they insist that all arcade games were designed to be quarter munchers and cannot be beaten without dying multiple times. Tell that to the gamers who can one life Metal Slug 3, or TMNT, or Sunset Riders, etc.

3. Reviewers would rather play something that requires six buttons to play and a tutorial. However, give them something that is easier to pick up and play, but actually puts their reflexes, skill, coordination, finger dexterity and pattern recognition to the test and they hate it. That's what they call "simplistic" gameplay. As if the depth of a game is measured only by the number of buttons and functions it has. I guess that makes ikaruga, Tetris, Metal Slug 3 and other games shallow then because clearly any schmuck can pick up a controller and breeze through Ikaruga or Metal's Slug 3's final stage. After all, these games are so "simplistic".

4. Many of today's "professional" reviewers have little to no respect for the games that made gaming what it is today.

There's some decent picks in that EGM list:

Pong-started it all
Super Mario Bros-Pulled the gaming industry out of the grave
Pacman-If I'm not mistaken, this was the first hugely popular arcade game
Zelda(NES)-Deserves to be there more than Ocarina of Time
Grand Theft Auto III-Love it or hate it, there's no denying its huge effect on the gaming industry. Inspired many copy cats, changed the way some games were designed, and along with Halo made gaming even more mainstream.
Tetris-I would justify it being in the top ten simply because of its incredible accesibility. I know an older lady at work who probably never played a game in her life and yet she got Tetris as a gift and was hooked. Tetris is a game that has reached beyond hardcore gamers
Street Fighter II-Probably the first hugely succesful one on one fighting game, and it started a craze in the arcades that kept them alive for some time. John Tobia and SNK owe a lot to this game

For the record, I'm not a Zelda hater. I just think some of the games are a bit overrated. I like Ocarina of Time, but with the exception of the first battle with Ganon at the end and everything that happened after that, I don't think it lived up to the hype. Somehow the game seemed smaller in scope than Link to the Past. Twilight Princess was a great game, but by the time of its release I think that Beyond Good and Evil and Okami had outdone Zelda in some ways

[RadarScope1]

And for the record, I'm not a Zelda fanboy, just a fan (if that makes any sense). Yeah, the biggest gripe about that series is that it's the same essential experience each time out, the only MAJOR change being the jump from 2D to 3D. If N brought out a new Zelda on a Splinter Cell-like schedule I wouldn't even bother playing them. But since they only come out ever three or four years, I usually play them all.

But back to the lists. If you read the entire EGM list, it's pretty good. Overall they did a thorough job with it. Here's a link the whole feature on 1UP.

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3147448

[tHePhAnToM!??!]

i agree...gta 3 changed everything...i have already stated that this game is probably the main fucking reason why it became cool to be a video gamer again. i love the game. i just hate its effect i guess if that makes any sense. to me its not what sells. its what has a good track record. its what has value. like i would have put either mgs1 or mgs3 on the top 10. both stories are just amazing and there was something about those games that just was so i dont know...it was like playing a movie. so complex and intriguing. everything about it was compelling. honestly i was very moved when i saw Snake in snake eater getting tortured. especially when he got his eye shot out. that whole scene was just fantastic.(i loved how afterwards when you went to 1st person view the left corners were a little blackened.) castlevania sotn was a masterpiece. fucking masterpiece. as for jet grind radio not getting on the list, that is retarded. well everyone has their own opinions. but yeah. ok im done.

[Ivo]

I'm not getting into the rest of the discussion, but it strikes me as particularly strange that some people argued that PC games (or handheld games) shouldn't be on the list. That really (REALLY) does not make sense at all to me.

The list isn't "the top 100 console games", afterall. They should have home computer games from back in the day, retro or modern PC games, Mac games (if there are any - ok just kidding) and whatever is good enough to qualify.
That goes as well for handheld games, and I'm sure there ARE a couple of gems that wouldn't be unreasonable to place in a top 100 (maybe they would be arguable, but not unreasonable for sure).

Ivo.

[RadarScope1]

Yeah, that's a huge problem with these lists. EGM has always been centered on arcade and console games (and handheld too) so that's why their list is like that. I don't read EDGE very much but I assume it's the same with that mag.

But yeah, a true top games list would have to include Doom, a few Sierra and LucasArts adventure games, Civ, SimCity, etc.

Come to think of it, I don't know that I've EVER seen a top games list that spans everything including arcade titles, PC games, console and handheld games. I'd put indie PC games in there too. What a list that would be. And damn tough to compile....