Video of Contra 4 on the DS

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marurun
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Post by marurun »

but I'm a bit dissapointed that it doesn't really surpass Contra 3 graphically.
I would argue it appears to look better than Contra 3 in some ways. There's definitely expanded use of color, and there do appear to be a few more frames of animation in at least some of the movements.
I mean, Contra 3 is one of the most amazing looking games that doesn't use any fancy chips on the SNES.
It is a good looking game, but there are actually quite a large number that do look better. But I'm a long-time SNES player. Contra 3 was definitely fun, but the overhead levels weren't very fun to me, and while the levels did try to do interesting things, what with climbing buildings and all, I didn't feel that I like the backgrounds as much stylistically as Contra, Super C, or Contra: Hard Corps. It just feels like they didn't spend enough time on the environs.
It used quite a few of the fancy built-in features and I'm pretty sure the only other game to really surpass Contra 3 effects wise is Super Castlevania 4, though it's possible there are others out there. I really haven't played too many SNES games.
I agree in that Contra 3 used a lot of the Mode 7 effects, I don't always think they used them well. Super Castlevania IV and Contra 3 were both relatively early games in the life of the SNES and as such the companies felt under a lot of pressure to utilize all the different functions of the SNES. Sometimes this had great results, but sometimes this had poor results. There were times they put in certain parts of the various games just to demonstrate the cool stuff they were doing with special effects rather than to actually further the game or gameplay. This is a mistake, in my opinion, and I think some of the best SNES games are the games that actually use these special effects wisely, like Actraiser or Cybernator.

Sorry, this is just a little rant that's been building over the years. Everyone saying "Look at the scaling and rotation the SNES can do! The TG-16 and Genesis can't do that!" and then Treasure, with Gunstar Heroes, and later Konami, with Rocket Knight Adventures and Contra: Hard Corps proved everyone you didn't need it in hardware to do it. And like I ranted earlier, so much of the early use of hardware scaling and rotation looked like they were doing a "special effect" rather than just making the graphics look good and didn't really contribute to the gameplay.

Look at Axelay, for example. I'm not super fond of the game like many other people, but it's damn good looking, but that weird over-the-horizon rolling effect made those overhead levels a lot less fun than the side-scrolling ones, IMO.
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Post by lordofduct »

That and most of the Mode7 shit really annoyed me and looked fucking stupid. I can remember all the times I'd get pissed when floating around in my air ship in FF6 trying to find some stupid little village. WTF? Where am I? That flat obtuse mountain looks like just about everything else and it's draw distance is really off... WTF! I can't SEEEEEEE!

The only game I really liked it in was Actraiser (like marurun said) and Mario Kart utilized features well (not a big fan of the series though).
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Post by metaleggman »

Well, I personally love the different effects Contra 3 uses. Kind of like cheesy movie effects to me. They're so obvious, they work for me. :D

But, even if there is a bit more color or there are a few more frames, that's like the most basic enchancement there could be. I mean, the DS is tons more powerful than the SNES. And don't go all technical on me, cuz it's the truth no matter how you spin it. I didn't see any paralax scrolling, crazy effects, or on the fly scaling or anything. I mean, I pretty much think that the GBA Gunstar Heroes game is about on par with this. That's would be great on the GBA, but tbh, for a DS affair, it just doesn't impress me. It could be so much better looking imo... :cry:

But it inevitably comes down to gameplay. Better be fun as hell. :twisted:
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Post by Mozgus »

I could never get into any contra but the original. The music is really what makes a Contra game, and the music in the sequels just wasn't good enough.
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Post by gradualmeltdown »

Is it wrong that I expect Saturn quality 2D from DS? Its got more and faster RAM and its main graphics processor is faster than both of Saturns combined. Sure there is less storage, but compression has come along way. Love me some Contra, but I expect more in 2007. Everything should be huge ass sprites, scalling and scrolling all over the place. Hope it plays really well.
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pocket
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Post by pocket »

I saw the video and almost went boom-boom, right in my chair. This should hopefully be the Contra game that gets my mom back into the series.
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Post by marurun »

I'm not sure the GBA has a faster CPU than the Saturn... It might, but I don't know for certain it does. The SH2 was quite competent.
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Post by racketboy »

Mozgus wrote:I could never get into any contra but the original. The music is really what makes a Contra game, and the music in the sequels just wasn't good enough.
Constantly dying is what turned me off.
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Post by racketboy »

marurun wrote:I'm not sure the GBA has a faster CPU than the Saturn... It might, but I don't know for certain it does. The SH2 was quite competent.
I would find it very hard to believe that the GBA was faster than the Saturn.

Quick wikipedia search:
Saturn: Two Hitachi SuperH-2 7604 32-Bit RISC processors at 28.63 MHz (50-MIPS) - each has 4 KiB on-chip cache, of which 2 KiB can alternatively be used as directly addressable Scratchpad RAM

GBA: CPU: 16.8 MHz 32-bit ARM7TDMI with embedded memory.

I'd say the Saturn could blow away the GBA easily.

marurun wrote: I agree in that Contra 3 used a lot of the Mode 7 effects, I don't always think they used them well. Super Castlevania IV and Contra 3 were both relatively early games in the life of the SNES and as such the companies felt under a lot of pressure to utilize all the different functions of the SNES. Sometimes this had great results, but sometimes this had poor results. There were times they put in certain parts of the various games just to demonstrate the cool stuff they were doing with special effects rather than to actually further the game or gameplay. This is a mistake, in my opinion, and I think some of the best SNES games are the games that actually use these special effects wisely, like Actraiser or Cybernator.

Sorry, this is just a little rant that's been building over the years. Everyone saying "Look at the scaling and rotation the SNES can do! The TG-16 and Genesis can't do that!" and then Treasure, with Gunstar Heroes, and later Konami, with Rocket Knight Adventures and Contra: Hard Corps proved everyone you didn't need it in hardware to do it. And like I ranted earlier, so much of the early use of hardware scaling and rotation looked like they were doing a "special effect" rather than just making the graphics look good and didn't really contribute to the gameplay.

Look at Axelay, for example. I'm not super fond of the game like many other people, but it's damn good looking, but that weird over-the-horizon rolling effect made those overhead levels a lot less fun than the side-scrolling ones, IMO.
Sounds like you need to help with the "Games That Pushed The Limits" articles... :)
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Post by marurun »

heh... I've actually been trying to do some technical reading lately about the capabilities of 16-bit systems, like MIPS scores for the CPUs and comparative hardware capabilities. The problem is there aren't many sources that summarize that kind of info for laypeople. And the VDP (Hu6270) of the TG-16, for example, isn't well documented outside the emulator/console dev communities. With CPUs, it's surprising how similar the "16-bit" generation's CPU capacity might actually be, if the info I've been reading is correct. My biggest problems, then, are getting readable, accurate info, having time to read it, and having the motivation to give a shit outside of a wandering-mind interest :)
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