Problem with capitalism ?

[newt42]

Arguing politics on a gaming forum...

[ZeroAX]

I don't like socialism because while the government provides many services for you, if you're wealthy you're paying for other people's life insurance.

so what? poor people should just roll over and die?

perhaps we should bring slavery back, and take back the right of women working, that way unemployment rates would go down



this is where the american movie, russian catch phrase "fucking capitalistic pig" comes from (not targeted at you Dylan.)

yeah you have worked hard for it, you have every right to enjoy a rich life, but you have to pay the appropriate taxes, to help society.

we are not born equal in this world. heck just because you are black, you get less chances at a job. if you are a woman in a good position, chances are everyone will say you slept with someone to get the job (anyone remember Jade Raymond, of assasin's creed fame?).

Why should the rich people NOT help society? Is that money better spend on a 4th boat? Does buying expensive stuff, really make you feel nice?

Heck Michael's Jackson life story is so tragic, cause he had everything (riches fame and glory) yet had really nothing.

[MrPopo]

I don't like socialism because while the government provides many services for you, if you're wealthy you're paying for other people's life insurance.

so what? poor people should just roll over and die?

perhaps we should bring slavery back, and take back the right of women working, that way unemployment rates would go down

Now come on, your other examples aren't the same as an anti-government healthcare example. Abolition and womens rights all fall under the category of every person being free to forge their own destiny in life. I think pretty much everyone on this site can agree that is a good thing. Government healthcare states that if you don't do so well at forging your destiny the government will help prop you up. And not everyone agrees with that notion.

[ZeroAX]

I don't like socialism because while the government provides many services for you, if you're wealthy you're paying for other people's life insurance.

so what? poor people should just roll over and die?

perhaps we should bring slavery back, and take back the right of women working, that way unemployment rates would go down

Now come on, your other examples aren't the same as an anti-government healthcare example. Abolition and womens rights all fall under the category of every person being free to forge their own destiny in life. I think pretty much everyone on this site can agree that is a good thing. Government healthcare states that if you don't do so well at forging your destiny the government will help prop you up. And not everyone agrees with that notion.

yeah, but sarcasm works better when you exaggerate

[dlmvii]

Why should the rich people NOT help society? Is that money better spend on a 4th boat? Does buying expensive stuff, really make you feel nice?

Buying another boat is not simply pissing away money - it pays a business, which in turn pays its workers, who receive money for contributing to society in some way (in this case, buy building boats, which are clearly in demand if someone wants 4 of them), instead of receiving money for simply existing.

[Dylan]

so what? poor people should just roll over and die?

perhaps we should bring slavery back, and take back the right of women working, that way unemployment rates would go down

this is where the american movie, russian catch phrase "fucking capitalistic pig" comes from (not targeted at you Dylan.)

yeah you have worked hard for it, you have every right to enjoy a rich life, but you have to pay the appropriate taxes, to help society.

we are not born equal in this world. heck just because you are black, you get less chances at a job. if you are a woman in a good position, chances are everyone will say you slept with someone to get the job (anyone remember Jade Raymond, of assasin's creed fame?).

Why should the rich people NOT help society? Is that money better spend on a 4th boat? Does buying expensive stuff, really make you feel nice?

Heck Michael's Jackson life story is so tragic, cause he had everything (riches fame and glory) yet had really nothing.

I'm not arguing that it's inappropriate to give to others, but to some extent you're entitled to what you earn. Many of the richest people and corporations donate excessive sums of money to help the poor. I would argue that any poor person living in a capitalist world can create a better life for himself if he works for it. So while they may not be rich, they can at least create a life worth living. I'm not necessarily targeting this idea at the rich vs. the poor so much as those who are willing to work and have drive in life vs. those who have no passion and do not contribute to society as a whole. People who willingly fail can't be helped, because they will knowingly drop every opportunity given them. While the playing field isn't exactly even by circumstance, there is almost always room for improvement.

[Hatta]

Last I checked, Capitalism just f***ing works.

Sure it works, if you're rich. Socialist economies like say, Sweden work for everyone.

[ZeroAX]

I would argue that any poor person living in a capitalist world can create a better life for himself if he works for it. So while they may not be rich, they can at least create a life worth living. I'm not necessarily targeting this idea at the rich vs. the poor so much as those who are willing to work and have drive in life vs. those who have no passion and do not contribute to society as a whole. People who willingly fail can't be helped, because they will knowingly drop every opportunity given them. While the playing field isn't exactly even by circumstance, there is almost always room for improvement.

and what about the people, who can't work? Like paralised people, old people who got fucked by their insurance company?

and to the guy above, the tax money would create many more jobs, than the boat money.


besides, as my ancient ancestors said "everything in balance is perfect" (pan metron ariston).

we've got a system that doesn't give you any reason to try (communism. they steal your fortune, just because the feel like it.)

we've got a system that punishes you for being poor/disadvantaged (and please don't give me the work crap on this one, there ARE people who just were not lucky in life, and a small health insurance isn't too much to ask)


and then we've got all the systems that combine best things of both systems.

Like you CAN become insanely rich, if you work for it, but you have to pay taxes to the society that helped you climb to the top (either by buying your products, or goverment funding ect. ect.)

[Dylan]

and what about the people, who can't work? Like paralised people, old people who got fucked by their insurance company?

and to the guy above, the tax money would create many more jobs, than the boat money.

besides, as my ancient ancestors said "everything in balance is perfect" (pan metron ariston).

we've got a system that doesn't give you any reason to try (communism. they steal your fortune, just because the feel like it.)

we've got a system that punishes you for being poor/disadvantaged (and please don't give me the work crap on this one, there ARE people who just were not lucky in life, and a small health insurance isn't too much to ask)

and then we've got all the systems that combine best things of both systems.

Like you CAN become insanely rich, if you work for it, but you have to pay taxes to the society that helped you climb to the top (either by buying your products, or goverment funding ect. ect.)

Perhaps I'm not being clear, but I'm not talking about absolute capitalism. That doesn't exist, people wouldn't let it work. We have monitored capitalism, it's not like the disabled and disadvantaged are getting left in the dust. There are all kinds of programs to help those people. It's not the rich's fault that the poor are poor, there are many factors that feed into these classes. Besides, it's worth noting that in a capitalism by far the largest economic class is the middle class, which is a detail many like to glaze over.

[lisalover1]

America is based on capitalism which means making maximum profit and FREE market, exactly what corporations are doing. Now people are upset they are jobless. Flaw in the system?

Yeah, and I like pasta because my house is made of bricks!

Anyway, most of what you said in your argument included things like "I heard" or "I thought" or other things that were not confirmed, or just completely based on opinion and facts don't have part in it.

In short, Capitalism is working for what you get, and getting what you work for. People that cheat the system are usually caught. Your arguement assuemes that a legal system is not present, or corrupt. Yes, there are people who cheat and never get caught, but they are few in number.