The Wrestling Thread

[Raging Justice]

I mean they had 37,000 more viewers. But they were on a different night, with no competition, and ranked 11th on TV. Dynamite had competition from NBA and so were expecting the dip, but still ranked 2nd on TV.

Obviously, overall, there is a big gulf between WWE and AEW in terms of popularity, but I am still going to laugh at Cody being mid.

I hope AEW gets their shit together. It's the lack of consistency and cohesion that frustrates me. Daniel Garcia was hugely over for a long time and where is he now and what is he doing? (I am aware he was just on Dynamite, but I presume it was just a random match) Where is Ricky Starks? Where are the House of Black? It's all a bit random at times.

They still put on great episodes every now and again though and their PPVs still continue to be... (I hesitate because Double or Nothing was definitely weak in places, but...) must see events.

Oh and the build to Blood and Guts should be interesting, particularly for multiple reasons. It's 5 vs 5 and The Elite only have 4 men. We also have no idea who the 5 Team AEW guys will be, but we know FTR and Kingston are injured. So the question becomes... is Hangman returning and if so, whose side will he be on? And will Swerve also be involved? Could we see the two having to coexist on Team AEW?

Another interesting thing about Blood and Guts is a few of the women in AEW are hyping something up? Are we going to see a women's Blood and Guts match at last?

The point I was trying to make is that people online make big debates over small numbers. 37,000 is nothing. In fact, the overall ratings of both brands are a joke compared to what WWE used to get in the Attitude Era or the 80s. In the grand scheme of things these weekly numbers that fans fuss about online are ultimately all crap ratings. Of course, someone will always chime in and say that TV in general is dying, and that people are resorting to streaming, DVR, etc, etc, etc. Maybe that's all true, it's just that I can't forget how big wrestling used to be compared to now. I was there in both the 80s AND the 90s. I posted a youtube video many weeks ago featuring two casual wrestling fans basically talking about how much wrestling has lost it's popularity. Everyone's going on and on about this "boom period", but in reality, any normal person will tell you that wrestling is not super popular right now and hasn't been since the late 90s. It just feels silly having serious debates about the ratings of both companies when it's honestly shit on both sides.

There's a lot I enjoy in AEW, but like you said there's a lack of consistency. It's the same with WWE. There are things I like there too, but there's also a lot of shit that drives me nuts. I just want to see a company go on a prolonged period of awesomeness, like AEW's first two years, or Black and Gold Era NXT, or Lucha Underground's entire run, or even some of TNA's early years that I've heard so many good things about. I just want that feeling of being excited about pro wrestling for a pro longed period of time. I really wish somebody could enter a hot streak. I know people say that's happening with WWE right now, but I'm not seeing it, and I've noticed a lot more complaining since Mania, with all of the hype that it had having died down. WWE has had a consistent habit of getting people all excited for Mania season, and then right after that the product goes back to being boring.

I love pro wrestling, but at the moment it doesn't feel particularly exciting. Nobody has a real hot angle going right now, or a white hot star who is just stupidly over like what you see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwYWYuqbj8

The best part about that is that it was organic, not the force fed pushes of Cena, Cody Rhodes, and Roman Reigns. I'd like to see someone get super over like that on their own again, but if they did WWE would just bury them anyway (like they've done with LA Knight and Sammy Zayne). Oh well, it is what it is. Entertainment in general these days ain't what it used to be and I think a lot of people are noticing that. Sometimes the reality of that just hits me in the face and then I make negative posts like this

A women's blood and guts match would be interesting, it's something new at least. However, there's not enough interesting stuff going on in the division to really justify it. The most heated feud going on right now is Purrazzo and Thunder Rosa and they are already going to blow that off with a no DQ match.

AEW and WWE's story telling really frustrate me. AEW can't tell consistent stories anymore. WWE is capable of consistent stories, but are never able to end them in a satisfying way. It's like both companies have opposite problems. I'm already dreading how WWE will fuck up Otis/Gable, or how Iyo losing her mind won't lead to anything worth a damn. Then there is the never ending Bloodline storyline that will continue on until you and I have brittle bones and grey hair as WWE adds the 50th new member to the group while the corpse of Paul Heyman is still somehow cutting promos for them

[Reprise]

Well AEW might be a bit dull at the moment, but I had these all delivered today. They should keep me busy for a while. I didn't watch Full Gear last year, I don't think the reception was that great, but it has a few great matches on there (the death match between Swerve and Hangman being one of them).

[Raging Justice]

A few funny, random, notes I wanna make about some people in AEW (and maybe a few WWE people as well)

I feel like everyone has forgotten this, but Kris Statlander is literally an alien from another planet

Luchaurus was a lizard man named Vibora in Lucha Underground. He was killed by Johnny Mundo and Taya, before somehow remerging as a talking dinosaur in AEW.

Jungle Boy is the son of 90210's Luke Perry. He apparently got lost or abandoned at some point in his life and was raised by animals in the jungle before befriending Luchasaurus and coming to AEW

Pentagon is literally Pentagon from Lucha Underground. He even started calling himself Penta Oscuro at one point in AEW just like his old Lucha Underground name, Pentagon Dark. He was trying to break people's arms for a while too, like his Lucha Underground counterpart

Swerve said on this week's Dynamite that his nickname is "Killshot", which pretty much makes his Lucha Underground story canon as far as I'm concerned He's made onscreen references to Lucha Underground before and has also talked about his military background. I know he has a real life military background, but it was also part of his Lucha Underground story. Even his constant references to bad stuff he's done in the past could be a reference to his past in both All Elite Wrestling AND Lucha Underground. I remember him briefly being involved in a storyline with AR Fox in AEW too, who he had a major feud with in Lucha Underground resulting in one of the promotions best matches.

Matt Hardy teleported in AEW and had supernatural powers. I'm reading now that a segment involving him in TNA this week resulted in some one being decapitated and killed

Chris Jericho is a wizard who can shoot fireballs from his hands

House of Black used to have supernatural powers that turned people evil when they sprayed black mist into your eyes

Edge is literally a vampire, as we were reminded at Double or Nothing. He seems unaffected by sunlight though

Someone cloned Orange Cassidy, but messed up the age. I've seen a kid that looks and acts like him at several AEW shows. The clone also has a pinfall victory over Cody Rhodes

Abaddon is supposed to be an actual zombie. On that note, WWE had a match not that long ago with the ring surrounded by literal zombies. THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

On that note, Alexa Bliss used to have supernatural powers she got from Bray Wyatt, and also has a pinfall victory over Randy Orton on her record

On Being the Elite, the Bucks mentioned Adam Cole being "killed". So how is he in AEW?

Fuego Dos mysteriously disappeared from AEW after Cody Rhodes left. Last I heard, he is "presumed dead"

Rey Mysterio was in Lucha Underground as...Rey Mysterio. This means that in kayfabe he has literally wrestled monsters and supernatural creatures in an underground Aztec temple, in addition to having matches in WWE with Kane and the Undertaker. That man has seen some crazy shit

Apparently he didn't recognize Prince Puma without the mask as Ricochet in WWE

If Lucha Underground is in the same universe as WWE, it's a shame we never got to see Undertaker vs Mil Muertes

AEW shares a universe with Cobra Kai. Brit Baker has literally been trained by John Kreese. "Sting ray" has been seen singing Chris Jericho's Judas on an episode of Cobra Kai. Paul Walter Hauser has also been wrestling in various places, including the last Ring of Honor pay per view, and once appeared in AEW as well.

Britt Baker was the first person to open AEW's "Forbidden Door" when she was shown on camera at an NXT show while employed with AEW

Kane has returned to wrestling, but changed his color scheme. I assume he controls...ice now?



We had a literal super hero in WWE once, who used to fly away after doing backstage promos:



Also, crazy, possessed puppets:



WWE (and presumably AEW too) is in the same universe as Scooby Doo and the muppets, just ask Christian



Seems like Scooby Doo shares a universe with EVERYTHING:






I believe Sexy Star was murdered in Lucha Underground, but there's a completely different masked woman going by that name now in AAA. She and AEW's Komander once lost a mixed tag title match against AEW's Sammy Guevarra and Tay Conti.

So many crazy things happen in the world of wrestling

[Reprise]

Some of that stuff is wild

I did forget some of those things, but not Statlander being an alien. That was a weird gimmick haha.

I think Swerve vs Ospreay is going to be such an incredible match at Forbidden Door. I think that's the moment we will see that Storm Driver story play out (the move he kayfabe retired because he kayfabe injured Danielson). Swerve says they call him the killshot because if his enemies don't take the shot on him, he does. He has that 'killer instinct', so to speak. Meanwhile, Ospreay just won a match using the Swerve Stomp, which PISSED Swerve off. So I think the finish to the match will be that Ospreay has Swerve beat, he goes for the Storm Driver, but then hesitates and refuses to use the move. That gives Swerve the opening his needs and then HE uses the Storm Driver on Ospreay for the 1... 2... 3... winning the match with one of Ospreay's finishers that he now refuses to use.

[Raging Justice]

I think Swerve vs Ospreay is going to be such an incredible match at Forbidden Door. I think that's the moment we will see that Storm Driver story play out (the move he kayfabe retired because he kayfabe injured Danielson). Swerve says they call him the killshot because if his enemies don't take the shot on him, he does. He has that 'killer instinct', so to speak. Meanwhile, Ospreay just won a match using the Swerve Stomp, which PISSED Swerve off. So I think the finish to the match will be that Ospreay has Swerve beat, he goes for the Storm Driver, but then hesitates and refuses to use the move. That gives Swerve the opening his needs and then HE uses the Storm Driver on Ospreay for the 1... 2... 3... winning the match with one of Ospreay's finishers that he now refuses to use.

Yeah, I could see that happening. It would make sense. They are clearly telling some kind of story there, and I know Strickland takes his stories seriously.

Some of that stuff is wild

I did forget some of those things, but not Statlander being an alien. That was a weird gimmick haha.

Statlander's weird alien gimmick reminds me of a similarly bizarre gimmick Emma had in WWE where she used to have weird entrance music and would do weird dances while popping bobbles. What the hell was that all about? Just two really goofy gimmicks. I think Emma at least got somewhat over with her gimmick though, while I don't think Statlander's alien thing ever really caught on. You could get almost anything over in NXT though. NXT is the one part of WWE's fanbase that feels kind of like indie wrestling fans. They're open to weird shit (they'd love Timeless Toni)

I forgot to mention that the person who murdered Sexy Star in Lucha Underground was Chelsea Green of all people. Before she became a bit of a diva in TNA and a complaining Karen in WWE, she was a creepy, sexy, spider lady named Reclusa. She even wrestled a match with Pentagon:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/ ... usa_lucha/

So many current WWE/TNA/AEW wrestlers were in Lucha Underground, check out Sammy Guevara here, along with Thunder Rosa and WWE's Karrion Kross (who Triple H keeps trying to push all the time):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvC5h16odZQ

[Reprise]

Did I see Sonny Kiss in that video too? I never knew Sammy Guevara and Thunder Rosa were in Lucha Underground (or if I did, I forgot).

Yeah, I remember Emma's weird gimmick in NXT. I remember the first time I saw it and just being really perplexed lol.

[Raging Justice]

Did I see Sonny Kiss in that video too? I never knew Sammy Guevara and Thunder Rosa were in Lucha Underground (or if I did, I forgot).

Yeah, I remember Emma's weird gimmick in NXT. I remember the first time I saw it and just being really perplexed lol.

Sammy was only there very briefly, but yeah, he was a Lucha Underground character. That was the first time I had ever seen or heard of Sammy Guevarra. I honestly forgot about the guy before I saw him again in AEW. Lucha Underground was pretty early in Thunder Rosa's wrestling career I think. I remember some people criticizing her wrestling ability after her first few appearances on the show. She's obviously improved since then and I never hear anyone complain about her wrestling ability now. She led a whole lizard tribe which had Luchasaurus in it. She became a fairly major villain on the show actually.

Lucha Underground is also where John Morrison and Taya fell in love both in real life and as part of the show's storyline. What's funny is that they brought back his ex girlfriend Melina for one episode in season 1 and for whatever reason we never saw her on the show again. I've always heard bad stuff about Melina behind the scenes, and she supposedly had a very toxic, real life relationship with Johnny that involved her cheating on him with Batista when they were all in WWE. Lucha Underground seems to be where he put that relationship behind him and started a new one with Taya.

Anyway, Some of the stories in Lucha Underground were amazing. I know you only watched some of it, so some of this may be spoiler-ish, but man I loved the Mil Muertes, Fénix, Catrina storyline. They had this mythical, never ending feud between Fenix and Mil Muertes. People actually died in Lucha Underground, but Fénix was a literal phoenix. Mil Muertes killed him once and Fénix came back from the dead. Mil Muertes was death incarnate, so he died one or two times on the show, but returned more powerful each time like a Dragonball Z character. Lucha Underground used to talk up both guys like they were the embodiment of light and dark, life and death. Both guys were in this love triangle with Catrina. Catrina was in love with Fenix, but she was evil so that couldn't work. I never could tell if she felt anything for Mil Muertes but he was useful to her and she always knew how to control and manipulate him.

At some point in the show's ongoing story line, they revealed that Catrina was actually dead, or that she was caught in some limbo between life and death or something. She needed Fénix's life force in order to rejoin the world of the living. When he died again, she took that from him. She didn't seem happy about doing that to him, but she always put her own goals before her feelings. Fénix came back to life once more, but he came back...wrong. He looked like an undead version of himself, he didn't speak anymore, and his in ring style became very aggressive. He seemed driven by absolute rage. This was basically a Fénix heel turn. Before this happened, he had developed a romantic relationship with Melissa Santos. This led to a revenge story line that culminated in a cinematic fight between her and Catrina. Melissa used the combat training she had once received from Fénix to win. Melissa was a baby face though, so she couldn't kill Catrina. Mil Muertes however, had been betrayed by Catrina. So when Melissa wouldn't kill her, he did. Epic stuff. Catrina was hanging off of the side of a building, Melissa couldn't do the deed, but Mil Muertes showed up and pushed Catrina off of the building. For whatever reason, Mil Muertes chose not to do anything to Melissa even though he was a villain. He just left.

[Raging Justice]

Let's all pretend that we didn't see the blatant tap out from Cargill:



That was just ONE of the botches she made in that match.



^Someone tweeted that Cargill botch with the French words "en fin". I think you would have to have been been around French speaking people to know this, but sometimes "en fin" is basically the French equivalent of "Sigh...again?" It's almost like disappointment mixed with resignation. Like, "Well, we should have expected this". That feeling you get watching one of your dumb friends once again do something dumb or watching your stupid dog pee on the carpet again. You're annoyed, but you're also not surprised. I'm trying to think of a good visual representation, maybe this:



Anyway, your world champion ladies and gentlemen. LOL



I love how WWE puts the women's tag titles on two ladies they haven't build up AT ALL instead of going with Starks and Bazler. This was either a pity win due to one of them losing her mom, or just something to take advantage of the venue (like Saraya's underserved title win in AEW):



Cynicism aside, at least it's a surprise given how predictable WWE booking is. Hopefully they can do something with those belts, which haven't been booked well at all since WWE re-introduced them

Okay enough of me trolling WWE. Here's a random fun moment from Tam and Natsupoi:

https://www.reddit.com/r/stardomjoshi/c ... e_new_cam/

[Reprise]

Let's all pretend that we didn't see the blatant tap out from Cargill:

People were saying she was tapping legitimately, as Shayna was giving her a receipt with that hold.

But yeah, those botches are horrendous.

I was surprised they had Drew lose again in the main event at Clash at the Castle. Then again, maybe I am not surprised. Gunther is facing the champion at Summerslam and no doubt winning the belt, and it was obvious that Punk vs Drew was being built for Summerslam.

Seems like the show was ok from what I have seen and read. It doesn't seem anywhere near as good as the first Clash at the Castle though. Am I the only one who thinks WWE's PPVs seem kinda mid this year? I read a post from a Wrestling page (and this is a fairly pro-AEW page too) that said WWE are on fire this year with their PPVs (sorry, PLEs ). I am not sure I really agree from what I have seen. Royal Rumble was crap, Elimination Chamber was fine, I haven't actually seen Mania yet ( ) but night 1 looked pretty weak (I just remembered people think it's the greatest Mania ever ), the only reason people jerk themselves off over Backlash is the ridiculously loud crowd and King/Queen of the Ring and Clash both seem pretty mid.

[Raging Justice]

Let's all pretend that we didn't see the blatant tap out from Cargill:

People were saying she was tapping legitimately, as Shayna was giving her a receipt with that hold.

But yeah, those botches are horrendous.

I was surprised they had Drew lose again in the main event at Clash at the Castle. Then again, maybe I am not surprised. Gunther is facing the champion at Summerslam and no doubt winning the belt, and it was obvious that Punk vs Drew was being built for Summerslam.

Seems like the show was ok from what I have seen and read. It doesn't seem anywhere near as good as the first Clash at the Castle though. Am I the only one who thinks WWE's PPVs seem kinda mid this year? I read a post from a Wrestling page (and this is a fairly pro-AEW page too) that said WWE are on fire this year with their PPVs (sorry, PLEs ). I am not sure I really agree from what I have seen. Royal Rumble was crap, Elimination Chamber was fine, I haven't actually seen Mania yet ( ) but night 1 looked pretty weak (I just remembered people think it's the greatest Mania ever ), the only reason people jerk themselves off over Backlash is the ridiculously loud crowd and King/Queen of the Ring and Clash both seem pretty mid.

I feel bad for Drew. They are using him to get Punk over even though Drew has more upsides than Punk. He's in better shape, less injury prone, and has shone that is on Punk's level on the mic. He's been "punked" out twice already by Punk, and will probably lose to him at Summer slam. I can't believe they've had Drew lose at two Clash at the Castle events.

I saw someone suggest that the botch from Damien Priest, and maybe even Jade Cargill, were possibly due to the ropes being too stiff. Aren't people supposed to check that stuff BEFORE a big pay per view? What kind of operation is WWE running?

Yeah, everyone is fellating WWE these days. It makes me wonder if something is wrong with us? Like I wonder sometimes if maybe I'm just too jaded or something

I was enthusiastic about the product for a while when Triple H took over, but eventually it just felt like WWE went back to their usual patterns. Sure, some stuff is better now. The camera work is better, backstage segments have improved, and certain people who were ignored are getting TV time. We've also moved away from some of the awful names Vince used to give wrestlers. However, WWE is still predictable. They still feel too corporate. They still ignore anyone who gets over that they didn't choose, and once again they are pushing a guy as the face of the company who shouldn't be in the role.

As I've said before, I think a combination of online gaslighting, control over the media, as well as the more rebellious part of their fanbase leaving is why we are seeing this perception that the company is better than ever. I think it's also just pettiness from people who hated Vince and want to act like the company is perfection now that he's gone. I honestly believe that's one of the reasons the online media is so pro WWE right now, it's just a way to further demonize Vince and give him the finger. I followed dirt sheets and online wrestling sites for years, and there has never been any love for Vince even before these allegations came out. It's a mix of all of those things coming into play in my opinion. It also doesn't help that AEW has gone through a lot of problems and lost that Halo effect they used to have. As I've said before, sabotage from Punk and Cody, as well as poor leadership from Tony Kahn (who have given himself WAY too much power within the company in my opinion) have all done permanent damage to AEW that can't be undone.

Cody in particular is a scumbag, so many people are acting like him going to WWE along with Triple H's leadership are why WWE is thriving. Cody was the guy who was supposed to change wrestling through AEW. Instead he ended up exploiting AEW and using them as leverage to return to WWE as a bigger star, and now all he is doing is helping WWE get more successful, to the detriment of AEW. I can't pretend that none of that is true and I will always see him as a scumbag no matter what anyone says about him to the contrary. The truth is the truth. How do you define a sell out? A person who abandons their friends, family, or colleagues for fame and money. That is LITERALLY what Cody has done. He sold out everyone in AEW, along with the fans, to become the number one guy in WWE. We know damn well that when he was negotiating to go back there he told them to make him the top star. He knew exactly what he was doing. Oh, and he also got to protect his precious ego because the AEW fans booing him made him want to cry like a little baby. Instead of doing what would have been best for AEW and turning heel, he went to WWE instead and demanded that they make him their number one baby face. Asshole

I missed most of Collision but I did see Christian open the show which was cool. I love how Christian really does believe that he's the face of AEW. I also saw the main event. Buddy Murphy may or may not have been injured. If it was a work, then they did an amazing job selling it. It even played beautifully into the post match angle. I really liked the main event and the closing of the show.

I haven't seen Purrazzo vs Rosa, but I have a feeling it was really good. I've seen some random spots from the match on social media that looked cool like this one:

https://x.com/AEW/status/1802140323646148688