The Wrestling Thread

[Reprise]

You know what would have been a cooler story than this Heel Elite vs AEW thing?

CM Punk/Collision vs The Elite/Dynamite

We would have a real Colliders vs... whatever the fuck Dynamite fans would have been called. It would have made both shows feel important, had a major overarching storyline and feud and we wouldn't have what we have now. I.e. A secondary show that already feels like it has gone the same direction Rampage went, CM Punk back in WWE making them bank and pretty much everyone jerking themselves off over how "great" WWE is and how "lame" AEW is.

Yeah, it's a bit "Raw vs Smackdowny". I wasn't a fan of the WWE brand split, but as an angle I prefer it to whatever the fuck this Elite storyline is.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Punk is blameless in AEW and I don't know if there was any resolution that would have actually worked, besides the company and TK nipping the issues in the bud two years ago. And I also think he looks like he went back to WWE with his tail between his legs and it's pathetic what a corporate WWE suck up he is now (wonder if he'll ever go "suck a blood money covered dick in Saudi Arabia"). I am just saying, "hey if this had worked out, that would have been so much better".

[Reprise]

Wow, WWE are turning Summerslam into a two night event this year.

[Raging Justice]

Wow, WWE are turning Summerslam into a two night event this year.

Why is everyone so hooked on the two night thing now?

You know what would have been a cooler story than this Heel Elite vs AEW thing?

CM Punk/Collision vs The Elite/Dynamite

We would have a real Colliders vs... whatever the fuck Dynamite fans would have been called. It would have made both shows feel important, had a major overarching storyline and feud and we wouldn't have what we have now. I.e. A secondary show that already feels like it has gone the same direction Rampage went, CM Punk back in WWE making them bank and pretty much everyone jerking themselves off over how "great" WWE is and how "lame" AEW is.

Yeah, it's a bit "Raw vs Smackdowny". I wasn't a fan of the WWE brand split, but as an angle I prefer it to whatever the fuck this Elite storyline is.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Punk is blameless in AEW and I don't know if there was any resolution that would have actually worked, besides the company and TK nipping the issues in the bud two years ago. And I also think he looks like he went back to WWE with his tail between his legs and it's pathetic what a corporate WWE suck up he is now (wonder if he'll ever go "suck a blood money covered dick in Saudi Arabia"). I am just saying, "hey if this had worked out, that would have been so much better".

I mean yeah, brand split is pretty much what went through my mind when AEW starting having all of these extra shows, including Ring of Honor. Crazy thing is, Collision literally WAS a brand split when Punk was in charge, just not one they would acknowledge in kayfabe

I still don't get WHY Punk went back to WWE. Does he think he needs to salvage his reputation after the AEW fiasco? Does he need the money? To me, as if he didn't damage his reputation enough already in AEW, he damaged it even further by going back to WWE. Now he looks like a hypocrite and a corporate shill (the thing he was supposed to be against years ago). Also, it just makes me think that Colt was in the right with the whole legal issue since it's clear as day now that everything Punk says is a fabrication

Here's what I think Punk should have done. Before he got fired, he should have maned up and admitted that he made some mistakes. He should have done this both publicly and privately. He should have apologized to Tony Kahn, again both privately AND publicly since he made Tony look like an ass in front of the world during that press conference. He should have talked with Kenny Omega, and asked him to help smooth things over with the Bucks and Hangman. He should have told Jack Perry that he's sorry about how things went, and that they are both professionals and should be able to work together. Then he should have pitched some sort of Punk/FTR vs The Elite story line to Tony Kahn, done the best work of his career in that feud, made some money, and then everyone would have respected him again. AEW would have probably been in a better place right now too. None of that happened though, because Punk is a selfish, self centered, diva, asshole who isn't capable of being the bigger man even though as a veteran and as the older guy he goddamn SHOULD have been the bigger man

[Raging Justice]

"Who wrote this shit?"

https://x.com/Maffewgregg/status/1793700417555325302

Last night was a mess:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/ ... atch_from/

[Reprise]

I still don't get WHY Punk went back to WWE. Does he think he needs to salvage his reputation after the AEW fiasco? Does he need the money? To me, as if he didn't damage his reputation enough already in AEW, he damaged it even further by going back to WWE. Now he looks like a hypocrite and a corporate shill (the thing he was supposed to be against years ago). Also, it just makes me think that Colt was in the right with the whole legal issue since it's clear as day now that everything Punk says is a fabrication

I think that's exactly why he went back. It's hard not to argue that it worked, right? I agree that he looks like a hypocrite - he IS a hypocrite - but people don't seem to care.

Hell, not to get all conspiratorial, but I think he's full of shit when he acts like he gave it his best to make things work. He wanted to get fired and wanted to go back to WWE. He was probably trying to get fired when he kicked off at All In. He had already requested for his release and was denied by his own admission, he had already showed up at a WWE show whilst under contract to AEW whilst injured/suspended and he had already decided his return wasn't going to work, by his own admission. He has a meltdown over what Jack Perry did, yet two weeks beforehand he was blasting Hangman in a post-show segment (which was also probably him trying to get fired). That's another thing he forgot to discuss whilst to paint himself as an innocent victim What he said about Hangman, dragging that up again, was way worse than Perry saying "real glass, cry me a river on a pre-show".

Speaking of things he admitted, he confirmed what a report had said, that he tried to go back to WWE in 2019 before he joined AEW. Maybe he never really wanted to be in AEW. Maybe his All Out media scrum outburst was him also trying to get fired.

I think it's all about fame to him. He saw AEW was doing "ok", but that it had ultimately reached its potential and wasn't going to ever compete with WWE. So he tried to wriggle out.

Here's what I think Punk should have done. Before he got fired, he should have maned up and admitted that he made some mistakes. He should have done this both publicly and privately. He should have apologized to Tony Kahn, again both privately AND publicly since he made Tony look like an ass in front of the world during that press conference. He should have talked with Kenny Omega, and asked him to help smooth things over with the Bucks and Hangman. He should have told Jack Perry that he's sorry about how things went, and that they are both professionals and should be able to work together. Then he should have pitched some sort of Punk/FTR vs The Elite story line to Tony Kahn, done the best work of his career in that feud, made some money, and then everyone would have respected him again. AEW would have probably been in a better place right now too. None of that happened though, because Punk is a selfish, self centered, diva, asshole who isn't capable of being the bigger man even though as a veteran and as the older guy he goddamn SHOULD have been the bigger man

Exactly, yeah. "The apology should be as loud as the disrespect" as someone once said. Hmm I wonder who that was...

I think you were spot on when you once said no two men caused more damage to AEW than Cody and Punk.

[Reprise]

According to Fightful, MJF has re-signed and is expected back very soon (before Forbidden Door).

That's something positive for AEW at least. Adam Cole was shown walking again a month or two back, maybe he will be back soon too.

Regarding the two nights of Summerslam, it shows the growth and confidence of WWE. To be honest, it was only a matter of time. Summerslam has been treated almost as a secondary Mania for a while.

Personally I am not a fan though. I didn't like it when WWE first did it for Mania 36 (excluding when they did it for the second Mania). I already thought Mania was too long and whilst splitting it into two nights makes it easier to digest, it just ends up with loads of filler and a disjointed feel. I really don't need two nights. It's a part of a philosophy that believes bigger always equals better, when it objectively doesn't.

I thought the last couple of Summerslams were weak... Actually, I don't remember the last SS I watched that I enjoyed. Two nights could be a slog.

Bet they're just doing two nights so they can shoehorn the Rock into a main event match again

[Reprise]

Ha I just saw someone ask "how long before Royal Rumble also becomes a two night event?"

But actually, that's probably one show where I think it could be beneficial. Ever since they introduced the women's Royal Rumble, I have found the pacing pretty poor and the show a bit of a slog to watch. I didn't enjoy this year's Royal Rumble much and I thought last year's was average.

At least with two nights, you'd only have to watch one Rumble per night. Sitting through two entire Rumbles each year makes it harder to enjoy and appreciate each one.

Edit: I have only just found out that it's the King and Queen of the Ring PLE tomorrow. Shows how much I have tuned out of WWE.

Why is wrestling so boooooring right now? Jesus, I'd take whatever the fuck it is AEW is doing right now over WWE though. I can't stand their Saudi shows and how they do stuff like stick Cody and Logan Paul in the main event.

Both PLE's are ridiculously predictable though. In WWE I'd book Logan to win the title just for the Lulz. And in AEW I'd book Mercedes to lose just for the shock. They can protect her by having some kind of interference, maybe Saraya and lead into a feud between those two. They have history. Even better, have Jamie Hayter or Britt Baker return. Although Mercedes needs to be the heel, so I don't know.

Christian should win the title and solidify his placement as the top heel in the company. Actually, no. I want Okada in that position soon.

The Elite vs AEW? I don't care. The storyline is dumb.

Ugh AEW is a mess right now and it's a shame, because up until Dynasty I was thinking it had been very enjoyable. Hopefully Hangman, MJF, Britt Baker, Jamie Hayter and Adam Cole return over the next month or two and we start to see some better television.

WWE is always going to be WWE. I would like it if they can regain my interest, but with AEW, even when they suck, I always like that in ways they can be less predictable. With WWE you can always tell who is being pushed, who the company likes and what they're planning moving into the next Mania. As soon as WM39 ended, for example, we already knew who was winning the next Royal Rumble and what the Mania 40 main event was going to be, even with the nonsensical Rock involvement being shoehorned in. They had opportunities to pivot when there was a groundswell of support surrounding people like Sami and LA Knight, but don't, because they are WWE and they always know what is best for business and will always play it safe.

[Raging Justice]

Ha I just saw someone ask "how long before Royal Rumble also becomes a two night event?"

But actually, that's probably one show where I think it could be beneficial. Ever since they introduced the women's Royal Rumble, I have found the pacing pretty poor and the show a bit of a slog to watch. I didn't enjoy this year's Royal Rumble much and I thought last year's was average.

At least with two nights, you'd only have to watch one Rumble per night. Sitting through two entire Rumbles each year makes it harder to enjoy and appreciate each one.

Edit: I have only just found out that it's the King and Queen of the Ring PLE tomorrow. Shows how much I have tuned out of WWE.

Why is wrestling so boooooring right now? Jesus, I'd take whatever the fuck it is AEW is doing right now over WWE though. I can't stand their Saudi shows and how they do stuff like stick Cody and Logan Paul in the main event.

Both PLE's are ridiculously predictable though. In WWE I'd book Logan to win the title just for the Lulz. And in AEW I'd book Mercedes to lose just for the shock. They can protect her by having some kind of interference, maybe Saraya and lead into a feud between those two. They have history. Even better, have Jamie Hayter or Britt Baker return. Although Mercedes needs to be the heel, so I don't know.

Christian should win the title and solidify his placement as the top heel in the company. Actually, no. I want Okada in that position soon.

The Elite vs AEW? I don't care. The storyline is dumb.

Ugh AEW is a mess right now and it's a shame, because up until Dynasty I was thinking it had been very enjoyable. Hopefully Hangman, MJF, Britt Baker, Jamie Hayter and Adam Cole return over the next month or two and we start to see some better television.

WWE is always going to be WWE. I would like it if they can regain my interest, but with AEW, even when they suck, I always like that in ways they can be less predictable. With WWE you can always tell who is being pushed, who the company likes and what they're planning moving into the next Mania. As soon as WM39 ended, for example, we already knew who was winning the next Royal Rumble and what the Mania 40 main event was going to be, even with the nonsensical Rock involvement being shoehorned in. They had opportunities to pivot when there was a groundswell of support surrounding people like Sami and LA Knight, but don't, because they are WWE and they always know what is best for business and will always play it safe.

Shock is a great thing, it wakes you up, it generates buzz, and it grabs your interest. I think sometimes even doing the WRONG thing in pro wrestling can be good, because at least it surprises you. I mentioned before how WWE got a lot of bad press for the humiliating and unexpected ways they had Kofi Kingston and Bianca Belair lose their titles in the past, but even those could have been good things if WWE had something planned out for them. Like Kofi could have used that humiliating loss to change his character, he could have turned heel and done some kind of revenge story line with Brock Lesnar. You could have had him attacking Brock Lesnar backstage and making the guy bleed. That could have been a fascinating new chapter in Kofi's story and it would have been nice to have a serious Kofi and drop that New Day bullshit once and for all. In fact, this new heel Kofi could have turned on his New Day friends. I will gladly squash a guy in a 30 second match and humiliate him, if I have a plan for him that I think will benefit him in the long run. Entertainment gets boring when you don't take risks.

A lot of my favorite shows over the past couple years had moments that you would have never predicted, moments where the writers went AGAINST what you expected them to do, only for it to actually work out because they had something cool in mind that we couldn't have predicted. Game of Thrones became well known for NOT doing what fans wanted and often doing exactly what fans DIDN'T want, but it made for some compelling television

That's what I kind of wish we could have in pro wrestling right now. I said before that Malakai should have squashed Kyle O'Reilly. That would have pissed some fans off, and honestly the two of them actually had a really good match...but that was what you expected, a competitive match with Malakai winning...boring. I think Malakai squashing Kyle and viciously attacking him would have been more interesting and made him look more threatening going into the pay per view. Remember when Malakai used to instantly knockout people and quickly finish matches with one kick to the head? I do. What happened to that Malakai? The scary dude that could finish a match before you blinked? Kyle O'Reilly should have been squashed and then attacked post match and should have gotten stretchered out of the building as a message to Adam Copeland. Malakai should have SHOWN us what he's going to do to Adam Copeland in that match by using some barbed wire on Kyle O'Reilly. Instead, we got Malakai having explosive, bloody, diarrhea as the thing to make us want to buy the PPV. To be fair, that WAS unexpected...but not in a good way. AEW needs to be careful, they may have turned Malakai into a meme now with all of the silly pics and gifs that have come out of that segment. Also, is it a good idea to remind people of this?:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/ ... evin_nash/

Pro wrestling is so safe, boring, and predictable right now. You know the other problem? Nobody's a fucking badass anymore, and this applies to both heels and faces. Remember when I said I wanted Hangman to come back, start beer drinking again, and start causing issues for both Swerve and The Elite as a dangerous, unpredictable, loose cannon? That's a fucking badass. That's the edgy Hangman that I think people have been wanting for a very long time. That's the guy that can "get hot" as Jim Ross recently said. A guy who can get massively over. Incidentally, JR rated AEW's current product as a B. Got love his honesty

I want Hangman to come back and cut a badass promo about how he's pissed, he's angry, and he's got beef with a lot of people and he really, really, wants to hurt someone. "I don't care who the hell is running things now! It don't mean a damn thing to me because I will get the payback that I want and I will find all of you wherever the hell you hide or whoever the hell you try to hide behind. So Okada, Swerve, You *censored* pricks Matt and Nick, you little smarmy piece of shit Jack, you better hope I don't run into any of you...or anybody else for that matter, cause I just might buckshot lariat the next *censored* person I lay my eyes on. The cowboy...is back! And I hope you're all ready for some...COW...BOY...SHIT!!! (downs a whole bottle of bear and then throws it to the ground, shattering it in the process, and then storms off camera). Later in the show he runs into Mox backstage, they stare at each other for a few seconds. Mox says, "There he is...finally. It's about *censored* time" then he laughs and he walks off

On the topic of the rumble, I'm gonna get controversial here. One of the things some people hated about Lucha Underground was the intergender wrestling. It's funny because that sort of thing happens literally all the time in the indies, in Japan, and sometimes in TNA. People are not used to seeing it on TV though, so Lucha Underground ruffled some feathers. The thing is though, LU would never have needed TWO rumble matches (or Aztec Warfare as they called it) since they could throw all of the men and the women into one. Another great thing about Aztec Warfare is that it took up an entire show. It stood on its own as an important event in Lucha Underground. One match, one episode of TV, that was it. Plus, it wasn't for a title shot. If you won, you were the champion. Simple as that.

I will say though, two nights for WWE's Royal Rumble is not a bad idea at all and maybe they should do the same with PPVs like Money in the Bank. Or honestly, just make them separate pay per views. Why can't you have TWO Royal Rumbles and TWO Money in the Bank pay per views in a year? I would give them different names to differentiate them. The men's rumble PPV could be the "King's Royal Rumble". The women's rumble PPV could be the "Queen's Royal Rumble". WWE needs to get us on their payroll. Like seriously, it's not hard to come up with this stuff.

[Reprise]

Shock is a great thing, it wakes you up, it generates buzz, and it grabs your interest. I think sometimes even doing the WRONG thing in pro wrestling can be good, because at least it surprises you. I mentioned before how WWE got a lot of bad press for the humiliating and unexpected ways they had Kofi Kingston and Bianca Belair lose their titles in the past, but even those could have been good things if WWE had something planned out for them. Like Kofi could have used that humiliating loss to change his character, he could have turned heel and done some kind of revenge story line with Brock Lesnar. You could have had him attacking Brock Lesnar backstage and making the guy bleed. That could have been a fascinating new chapter in Kofi's story and it would have been nice to have a serious Kofi and drop that New Day bullshit once and for all. In fact, this new heel Kofi could have turned on his New Day friends. I will gladly squash a guy in a 30 second match and humiliate him, if I have a plan for him that I think will benefit him in the long run. Entertainment gets boring when you don't take risks.

I agree.

In some ways, I think fans can be the issue. Don't get me wrong, I think the audience also have good ideas and rightfully call out bullshit a lot of the time, but I noticed that "buried" is the most overused and misused wrestling term by fans these days. The second someone loses a match, suddenly they are "buried" and they are a "jobber". It's a very odd mindset. Matches SHOULD be able to go either way and sometimes people should have a bad day and suffer a squash. It's not a burial or a job if there's a plan in place for them. A hero getting knocked down or humbled is a common story trope that fans should be able to understand without them complaining "I can't believe wrestler x got buried like that".

[Raging Justice]

We should have a discussion some time about who executes certain moves the best

RVD has my favorite frog splash because of how he sells the impact. Plus, he's a big dude crashing down on you:





Of course, Kairi has my favorite elbow drop. She gets her legs up so high and it looks fucking beautiful, especially when you show it in slow motion:




Even better when your opponent sells it properly like they just got shot(note to self, make another post some day about wrestlers who sell the best LOL)



A lot of people use super kicks today, but for me Shawn Michaels was the first (and maybe LAST) guy to make it feel like a powerful move, the stomps certainly helped






The guy was a perfectionist, and it felt like he always hit it with pinpoint accuracy. Now the Usos and The Young Bucks spam them like crazy. That's okay, I'm not hating on them, but sometimes I miss when it was a powerful move

The spiderwalk. I don't see a lot of people use this. Bray Wyatt made it creepy. Tam Nakano actually found a cool, practical use for it:

(I love how the spider shrivels in fear of the Undertaker)






I don't know how many people can do diving maneuvers out of the ring and make them look good like Darby Allin




Dakota Kai has some of the best kicks in pro wrestling, educated feet as Jim Ross used to say. I love that so much of her offense revolves around her feet. I think she does a better 'heluva kick" than Sami Zayn. When she brings her A game she is fun to watch