World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[CRTGAMER]

So, the 9th circuit asked Trump's administration why the stay should be lifted. You know what the White House had to offer? That they though the president's authority on the matter was "unreviewable". That was pretty much it. No evidence whatsoever that the stay put the US in harm's way. No evidence whatsoever for any of their claims. Merely, in finality, that the White House thought that the courts had no standing to challenge the constitutionality of the executive order.

Note that the 9th circuit wasn't ruling on the merits of the immigration ban, just on whether there was cause to lift the stay until the the executive order itself was ruled on in court. And the administration brought nothing for their own defense save, "you can't tell us what to do, ever."

The 9th circuit has been accused of partisanship, but this decision wasn't about partisanship. It was about the White House being literally unable to offer anything compelling at all in court.

Agree, the defense was absolute crap. All they had to do was focus on the Homeland Security order which if I read it right IS one of the amendments in the Constitution. The spin that the president is not following the Constitution a bit of ironic since the law is in it.

Ban-Aid
Does not matter what the ruling is called, the Presidential Executive Order has been for now stopped. That alone exposes personal agenda over ruling what the law states clearly in the Constitution. As Ack surmised Steve Bannon is monitoring the ban of the ban; the overturn order will be banned at the Supreme Court.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-of ... ted-states

marurun, the statute in question seems pretty clear. If they didn't want the President exercising this sort of power, they shouldn't have given it to him.

8 U.S. Code § 1182

(f) Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.

I'm not arguing that it's necessarily good policy, but the President has been granted this power, for better or for worse.

Cut and dry. Exposed 9 district once again so the huge court system can be chopped to the states. As mentioned earlier, Judges read the law, adjourn and go home.

[jp1]

jp1, I fail to see how that post is any better than some of CRT's. Trump is neither the Lord and Savior who will fix everything, nor is he a fascist neo-Nazi.

What exactly is bad about the post Sarge? I didn't make the poster, I'm sure it isnt the first you or anyone else has seen of it. It is behind a spoiler because it is large. If similarities exist...maybe there is some discussion to be had about them.

I'm sorry it doesn't align with your views, but denying there are similarities at all is poor form IMO. Sorry, that's just the way I see it.

[Ack]

Is anyone aware of the history behind 8 U.S. Code § 1182? When was it written, who proposed it, what was the state of the nation, etc? I think it would be interesting to know historical context.

[Sarge]

If I might ask, what would be your point of posting that image?

(I also disagree with several of the characterizations in there, but this shouldn't be surprising. )

[BogusMeatFactory]

If I might ask, what would be your point of posting that image?

To comment on how the world is falling apart like the thread is about. It does not have to be the CRT show.

[marurun]

jp1, I fail to see how that post is any better than some of CRT's. Trump is neither the Lord and Savior who will fix everything, nor is he a fascist neo-Nazi.

Actually, Trump's administration's approach to governance and media and the public thus far does have a lot of striking parallels to the rise of fascists in many democratic nations throughout history. Whether he truly becomes a fascist leader depends largely on the willingness of the Republicans to check Trump's worst tendencies. While those approaches don't guarantee a descent into fascism, they are still worrying and must be opposed.

marurun, the statute in question seems pretty clear. If they didn't want the President exercising this sort of power, they shouldn't have given it to him.

...(f) Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States...

I'm not arguing that it's necessarily good policy, but the President has been granted this power, for better or for worse.

That's the money line, right there. The president is granted that power, but requires an evidentiary finding to support it. The cases against the EO are basically asserting that too many people, including US citizens with family abroad and businesses, are being negatively affected for this EO to be implemented without the justification the law requires. If the president has found that these aliens would be detrimental then he must make that case. That's what the 9th circuit was asking. The 9th circuit said "You have this authority, but you must also justify your actions with evidence. Show us some of the evidence so that we have good reason to suspend the stay until the courts can examine this more closely." For this the evidentiary bar would be lower than for a full review of the EO, and the administration couldn't even meet that lower bar. The 9th circuit would be remiss to allow the president to find harm without any evidence. Governance should not happen based on whim but based on data.

[Sarge]

If I might ask, what would be your point of posting that image?

To comment on how the world is falling apart like the thread is about. It does not have to be the CRT show.

I meant that more as a means of advancing discussion, but you're right. Sometimes I get caught up in thinking of this as a discussion thread, instead of a "holy crap I think the world kinda sucks" thread.

I broke my own rule... just keeping on scrollin'.

Carry on, y'all.

[jp1]

If I might ask, what would be your point of posting that image?

To comment on how the world is falling apart like the thread is about. It does not have to be the CRT show.

I meant that more as a means of advancing discussion, but you're right. Sometimes I get caught up in thinking of this as a discussion thread, instead of a "holy crap I think the world kinda sucks" thread.

Carry on, y'all.

So....it isn't a topic worthy of discussion when our current administrations actions are starting to look a lot like a poster of warning from the holocaust meusem?

Ok.

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

[Sarge]

Well, I disagree with the characterization in several of those categories. I mean, we could have a good discussion with something similar with Pres. Obama regarding socialism and/or Communism, but I try not to delve into that territory.

So... yeah, we could discuss. I do understand some of your concerns about Pres. Trump, because I have some myself. I just don't see him as the end of the world, I suppose. I suppose getting through eight years of Pres. Obama has taught me to take a deep breath every now and then.

Adding in to this, I read these comments from Bill Maher. I rarely agree with him, but I found these comments interesting:

I know liberals made a big mistake because we attacked your boy Bush like he was the end of the world. And he wasn't. And Mitt Romney we attacked that way. I gave Obama a million dollars because I was so afraid of Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney wouldn't have changed my life that much or yours. Or John McCain.

They were honorable men who we disagreed with and we should have kept it that way. So we cried wolf and that was wrong. But this is real. This is going to be way different.

He's definitely on the fascist train as well, but part of why it's not gaining traction is that the left has demonized even well-meaning conservatives, so even if Trump is a fascist, there are enough people that don't believe it because it's been said before, about much better and moral people than Trump.

[prfsnl_gmr]

To be clear...the ruling hinged on the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment. Basically, the government gave people something (e.g., visas, permanent resident status, the ability to travel to the U.S., etc.) and then took it away from them (i.e., "deprived" them of it) without notice or a hearing (i.e., "due process"). The federal government can't do that without violating the "due process" clause of the Fifth Amendment (i.e., the one applicable to the federal government). The decision also noted that the executive order raised issues of religious discrimination in violation of the First Amendment's establishment clause. (Statements referencing a "muslim ban" from the orange chess master we somehow elected President are the primary evidence in support of the religious discrimination claim. I wonder how those tweets ultimately work into the genius' master plan? ) All of this is in the context of a temporary restraining order; it is all pretty straightforward; and none of it is controversial.

The case will now be sent back to the lower court for motions practice, discovery, a preliminary injunction hearing, and for a disposition on the merits. Even proceeding on a expedited basis, getting to that point will take years, and the appeals process can take just as long. So...in short...and assuming that the administration doesn't cave...reaching a final disposition on the merits will probably occupy most of Trump's (hopefully brief) term in office.

To comment on how the world is falling apart like the thread is about. It does not have to be the CRT show.

Yes. I am a little tired of CRT framing the terms of the discussion here.