World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[BogusMeatFactory]

All those immigrant babies blowing shit up.

[Sarge]

All those immigrant babies blowing shit up.

Well, I can tell this discussion is becoming quite constructive.

Let me rephrase: Citizenship is conferred upon our citizenry at birth, so we do not get to pick and choose who becomes a citizen. They simply are. Immigrants must apply to enter our country, and thusly, we have a say in their entry/non-entry. Most immigrants are not bad people, but given the chance to screen them, we should, and we should not reward those who bypass the process. Perhaps some improved work program could be implemented to provide that labor that doesn't undercut our own lower class would be helpful, but I am against a "path to citizenship" unless they come in the right way, regardless of their innate morality.

[MrPopo]

I have to say I definitely lean towards Sarge's side on this conversation. What part of "you must go through our documented immigration process" is really such a burden? If it's felt that the current process is too onerous then lobby to get it changed.

Now, if someone does enter illegally and are caught, they should be deported. I don't think it's worth our time to seek them out; rather, let it come up when an ID check was already required.

[jp1]

The part in which people can't afford to or are not presented with the opportunity to go through our immigration process is the bit I'm concerned with.

I don't know...they are just people. It's not that complicated for me. I have had the opportunity to know some of them over the years, and they were just trying, really hard, to care for their families.

I don't live in fear of immigrants and what they may or may not do...so I find it hard to relate.

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

[MrPopo]

Then work on fixing the process. But for the time being there's a process and it should be followed. I get that they're trying to do right by their families. But as Sarge said, what is the point of having a border at all if we don't try and maintain its integrity?

[jp1]

Then work on fixing the process. But for the time being there's a process and it should be followed. I get that they're trying to do right by their families. But as Sarge said, what is the point of having a border at all if we don't try and maintain its integrity?

The only people who will ever be hindered by a border are the ones who respect the law in the first place. Otherwise, just as they do now, they will simply circumvent the obstacle.

It's impossible to fix the process in it's current state because you have misinformation driving the masses to hysterics about it.

For people who have already built a life and have kids...would you see them deported to possibly wind up homeless? They are doing what anyone would do in the circumstance and just trying to survive. We are partly responsible as a nation for the state of Mexico with drug cartels.

If there wasnt a market for them, they wouldn't exist.

[MrPopo]

They all took a known risk when they decided to cross the border illegally. They should be prepared to handle the consequences if they get caught. That said, as I mentioned before it's not worthwhile for us to go hunt them down. As you point out, the majority are productive members of society trying to make a life for themselves. But if circumstances arise that makes their illegal status known to people in authority them yes, INS should proceed with a deportation.

The only people who will ever be hindered by a border are the ones who respect the law in the first place. Otherwise, just as they do now, they will simply circumvent the obstacle.

I feel it necessary to point out this is the exact same logic put forth by gun rights activists when they oppose gun bans and harsher regulations.

[Sarge]

I agree with MrPopo that it isn't really worth the effort to actively track them down, but there are known consequences to entering the country illegally.

As far as drugs go, it's not like they don't have a deleterious effect on our country as well.

Honestly, and I've said this well before this election, I don't think a wall is the solution. It will slow things down, but won't stop it. If the goal is only slowing down illegal immigration, the better move is to reform parts of the system, and dis-incentivize employers from hiring illegals, hitting them with extremely stiff penalties if they hire illegals. Most will self-deport.

[jp1]

They all took a known risk when they decided to cross the border illegally. They should be prepared to handle the consequences if they get caught. That said, as I mentioned before it's not worthwhile for us to go hunt them down. As you point out, the majority are productive members of society trying to make a life for themselves. But if circumstances arise that makes their illegal status known to people in authority them yes, INS should proceed with a deportation.

The only people who will ever be hindered by a border are the ones who respect the law in the first place. Otherwise, just as they do now, they will simply circumvent the obstacle.

I feel it necessary to point out this is the exact same logic put forth by gun rights activists when they oppose gun bans and harsher regulations.

For good reason in my opinion. It's sound logic in both instances. I support gun rights, although begrudgingly because I oppose guns in general. Still, it is a constitutional right.

I agree with MrPopo that it isn't really worth the effort to actively track them down, but there are known consequences to entering the country illegally.

As far as drugs go, it's not like they don't have a deleterious effect on our country as well.

Honestly, and I've said this well before this election, I don't think a wall is the solution. It will slow things down, but won't stop it. If the goal is only slowing down illegal immigration, the better move is to reform parts of the system, and dis-incentivize employers from hiring illegals, hitting them with extremely stiff penalties if they hire illegals. Most will self-deport.

Certainly not to the extent they do on Mexico. Not even close, our "War on drugs" is self imposed. It is wholesale slaughter of innocents as well as those involved in Mexico.

I don't believe we can come to terms on immigration though, we are worlds apart. We obviously see the world through a different lens.

When I see someone broken down on the side of the road, I stop and help. People use this as a way to lure in folks and harm them, but it's a risk I will always take. I view the paranoia about immigration the same way.

“Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible.”

For Sarge:

Leviticus 19:33-34 “When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

[MrPopo]

I don't believe we can come to terms on immigration though, we are worlds apart. We obviously see the world through a different lens.

When I see someone broken down on the side of the road, I stop and help. People use this as a way to lure in folks and harm them, but it's a risk I will always take. I view the paranoia about immigration the same way.

See, I'm not looking at it through a lens of paranoia like so many people do. I look at it from the position of either we let in everyone or we enforce our rules about who can and cannot come in. I personally don't see the former as being a good policy, as at some point the influx is going to overwhelm us.