World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[CRTGAMER]

For the record, CRT just edited his post, removing a part that said something like

"Wow, congratulations for taking a whole day to look that up"

For the record after reading alienjesus concerning the time zone I removed the statement. That was a correction on my part, guess you cannot forgive? Its 4 in the morning over here; The U.S., Greece, UK and Spain are having a diplomatic situation again!

[jp1]

I'll take the bait:

16. Two For One Regulation Reduction - Absurd notion. I doubt it will do what it intends. You can start with PAC's and soft money.

15. Remove Lobbyist - Not enough. It's a great idea and financial contributions to our electoral system are a pay-to-play type of governing. I have no proof that Rex Tillerson among others as cabinet members dispel the idea that lobbying is going to be a ting of the past.

14. Refugees and terror - We have a reputable system for refugees that allows for thorough vetting before the granting of any type of visa. However, not having senior leadership in the State Department does not make this task an easier one.

13. Reshaping the military - I do not believe we have much to worry about with reshaping the military. We have plenty of military expenditures, perhaps this reshaping can focus on the veterans in need that we have neglected to serve after fighting two decade-long wars.

12. Border wall - Needless spending. Beef up other avenues to enforce immigration law. I still believe in the rule of law and it should govern anyone who is here.

11. Deportations and Sanctuary Cities - Sanctuary Cities do not adhere to a litmus test regarding supremacy clauses. Oppressive state laws that limit cities from effectively governing their people should be taken to the Supreme Court. I hope that the injustices in which red states are trying to overtake such cities are met remedied and that the veiled reasons for why sanctuary cities are under fire can actually be ironed out with nuance and dignity.

10. Review manufacturing regulations - We should be considering that manufacturing jobs are not sustainable. The regulations however, should adhere to the Paris Climate Agreement, as it is founded in scientific, verifiable proof and fact that adheres to the scientific method.

9. American steel in pipelines - Don't care. DAPL and Keystone XL should actually be a rail system, since rails are proven 3x safer than pipelines for spills, allow for longer investment in permanent jobs, and allow for improvements in infrastructure that the common American can benefit from.

8. Speeding up environmental reviews for all priority infrastructure. No. I'm all for expediency, but not at the cost of long-term environmental impact. Being close to our Great Lakes, anything that comes at the detriment to our clean drinking water is a nonstarter. Environmental reviews allow for oversight, information for the local citizenry, and advocacy for people over profits. This is an economic power grab by corporate interests.

6 + 7. Speeding approval of Dakota Access and Keystone Oil Pipelines. Nonstarter, see #9. The pipelines are foolish and we should be looking to improve rail systems instead of more pipelines.

5. Federal hiring freeze - Moot. It will impact people who are recently hired and fall into the realm of being impacted. I can think of many people who were looking forward to governmental internships, but the freeze has all but cancelled that out. This executive order I hope sorts out the baggage though, as long as critical posts do not go unfilled.

4. TPP - Good, as long as there are no global ramifications in being able to shape our trade policy. Pay workers equitable, fair wages. TPP may or may not have done that. We certainly won't get back manufacturing jobs as a result of pulling out of it, nor were we going to get any if it went into effect.

3. Abortion - It's law. Put it to rest, allow for safe abortions for anyone who needs one. That's a broad interpretation. Broaden the options for anyone who's unsure. Make adoption easier. Make birth control not an issue of sexual promiscuity when it's a sexist double standard and is actually responsible when you're considering the burden on the state to take care of a child on various entitlement-related costs.

2. Regulation Freeze - Sorry, no. Regulations are actually an important thing and I think this gives far too much latitude to operate in while the freeze is in effect.

1. Affordable Care Act rollback. - There's been no alternative proposed for the past six years. Give ACA its criticism, but the 19% approval rating in Congress tells me they like to sit on their hands, and let the President be the one who calls the shots, when they have an equally important job on their hands. Single payer may or may not be the solution, but I doubt that Congress has done anything to put pressure on insurers or the business wing of the hospital system, to make the average American feel like they can go to the doctor for their health without going into debt over it.

This is pretty spot on with my feelings as well, except I know virtually nothing about the pipeline, so where those issues are concerned I have no opinion. Some good points here Blu, I forgot to mention my concerns about the Paris agreement and net neutrality, even though the latter doesn't have anything to do with these executive orders it hasn't seen much discussion.

I'm afraid that most of my concerns are about the possible intent behind these orders rather than the direct action at face value. Perhaps that is unfair, but our dictator has done little since entering office to show me he is owed any trust.

In addition I think killing the ACA is nothing short of murder for the people who will surely die without any health coverage and are depending on it currently. Trump and his party have no intent of "making sure everyone has coverage". Of that I'm quite sure.

[CRTGAMER]

This is pretty spot on with my feelings as well, except I know virtually nothing about the pipeline, so where those issues are concerned I have no opinion. Some good points here Blu, I forgot to mention my concerns about the Paris agreement and net neutrality, even though the latter doesn't have anything to do with these executive orders it hasn't seen much discussion.

I'm afraid that most of my concerns are about the possible intent behind these orders rather than the direct action at face value. Perhaps that is unfair, but our dictator has done little since entering office to show me he is owed any trust.

I am curious, would you mind doing a line by line in your own words?

True many who oppose the President wonder about the hidden motives. For me the actions up front are what matter.

I need to read more on that Paris Accord. I suspect it would be impossible to set a standard of pay, OSHA and Environment for each country. The idealogy of the agreement is something to strive for unlike what has happened with NAFTA. Put in the controls first equal to all parties before signing the agreement.

[Ack]

Wow talk about pissing the boss off, this just happened.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/us/p ... -memo.html

Anyone else getting the "Saturday Night Massacre" vibe? I know it's not a carbon copy, Yates was Obama's AG who was being replaced... but man this is giving me the same vibe.

It's actually getting some traction as the Monday Night Massacre.

[jp1]

This is pretty spot on with my feelings as well, except I know virtually nothing about the pipeline, so where those issues are concerned I have no opinion. Some good points here Blu, I forgot to mention my concerns about the Paris agreement and net neutrality, even though the latter doesn't have anything to do with these executive orders it hasn't seen much discussion.

I'm afraid that most of my concerns are about the possible intent behind these orders rather than the direct action at face value. Perhaps that is unfair, but our dictator has done little since entering office to show me he is owed any trust.

I am curious, would you mind doing a line by line in your own words?

True many who oppose the President wonder about the hidden motives. For me the actions up front are what matter.

I need to read more on that Paris Accord. I suspect it would be impossible to set a standard of pay, OSHA and Environment for each country. The idealogy of the agreement is something to strive for unlike what has happened with NAFTA. Put in the controls first equal to all parties before signing the agreement.

I intend to do a line by line, but I need some time to collect my thoughts, actually sit down and make a post (getting ready for work at the moment), and do a little digging to make sure that I have good complete info on everything.

My short comments on Ack's and Blu's postings were simply a recognition of their merits. I wasn't intending to piggyback. Line by line is incoming as time permits.

[CRTGAMER]

I intend to do a line by line, but I need some time to collect my thoughts, actually sit down and make a post (getting ready for work at the moment), and do a little digging to make sure that I have good complete info on everything.

My short comments on Ack's and Blu's postings were simply a recognition of their merits. I wasn't intending to piggyback. Line by line is incoming as time permits.

Thanks, looking forward to it. Anyone else?

I just added the latest concerning today's possible Executive Action on overhauling Immigration Tech Jobs. I agree with this, though should be stronger with a mandate of equal salary and benefits for the overseas worker to encourage hiring America instead. Watching a live feed on CNN of the President meeting with Pharmaceutical Execs. Working on regulation reduction to reduce the costs of medication. The Small Business meeting yesterday showed an inside; the President describing the size of the oil pipe, hidden costs of shipping and why U.S. steel should be the producer; truly a businessman CEO looking out for America.

President Trump Meeting With Small Business 1-30-17 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFTH2Rnfwc8

I really wish the President will run the proposals thru Congress, he is building another wall on Pennsylvania Avenue if not careful.

Ack's Challenge

17. Immigration Tech Jobs

16. Two For One Regulation Reduction

15. Remove Lobbyist

14. Refugees and terror

13. Reshaping the military

12. Border wall

11. Deportations and Sanctuary Cities

10. Review manufacturing regulations

9. American steel in pipelines

8. Speeding up environmental reviews for all priority infrastructure

6 + 7. Speeding approval of Dakota Access and Keystone Oil Pipelines

5. Federal hiring freeze

4. TPP

3. Abortion

2. Regulation Freeze

1. Affordable Care Act rollback.

Saw this spoof on the Greg Gutfeld show - http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/01/29/g ... -pen-obama

[ZeroAX]

For the record, CRT just edited his post, removing a part that said something like

"Wow, congratulations for taking a whole day to look that up"

For the record after reading alienjesus concerning the time zone I removed the statement. That was a correction on my part, guess you cannot forgive? Its 4 in the morning over here; The U.S., Greece, UK and Spain are having a diplomatic situation again!

Actually that makes it even worse. I brought up a point and you tried to make fun of me and wave it away instead of addressing it directly. Just like a high school bully or Donald Trump would (make fun of the smart kids that did their homework, or in this case bothered to read the entire article).

Then people brought up how much of a thin argument your making fun of me was standing on, and you removed it. Not because you seem to have any intention to have a normal conversation with me, but because you are also trying to push your mess up under the rug, and try to bring again the attention to what you want people to talk about (hence you keep bringing up "Ack's challenge", even though you personally were avoiding like hell "dave's challenge".

[prfsnl_gmr]

Wait...what? Expansive executive power is OK, now? I thought that executive orders were the hallmark of overreach...When Obama signed them, my not-at-all-intellectually-dishonest congressman said that he was ruling "as an unaccountable monarch." I mean, thehill.com even wrote that:

"Donald Trump should reject this invitation to continue to govern without Congress."

What changed?

[CRTGAMER]

Wait...what? Expansive executive power is OK, now? I thought that executive orders were the hallmark of overreach...When Obama signed them, my not-at-all-intellectually-dishonest congressman said that he was ruling "as an unaccountable monarch." I mean, thehill.com even wrote that:

"Donald Trump should reject this invitation to continue to govern without Congress."

What changed?

Agree, the President really needs to get Congress involved. Will Yates lose her bar?

@ ZeroAX - Care to take the Ack challenge? My take at the link, scroll down for my answer to Daves Challenge. Seriously, don't let this Thread get to you. Debate for what it is; no worries if nobody changes their opinion.

http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p1080395

[prfsnl_gmr]

Will Yates lose her bar?

No. While attorneys have a duty to zealously represent their clients' interests, government attorneys have no duty to defend a law that they perceive as unconstitutional. Certainly, there will be differences of opinion regarding the constitutionality of a controversial law - and no lawyer will be sanctioned for making good-faith arguments in support of a law that is ultimately found to be unconstitutional - but government attorneys are given wide-latitude in this respect.

Clients, however, are free to fire their lawyers, and they are also free to find lawyers that will make arguments in support of their positions. Moreover, the AG serves at the President's pleasure, and as much of a stir as it has caused, Donald Trump was well within his rights to fire an AG that would not defend his executive orders in court.

In sum, the AG was within her rights to refuse to defend Donald Trump's executive orders; Donald Trump was within his rights to fire her; the AG will not be sanctioned by the bar for her refusal to defend Donald Trump's executive orders; and any lawyer who ultimately ends up defending the orders in court will not be sanctioned for his or her efforts either.