World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[J T]

Your silence is a luxury many people can't afford.

[Sarge]

Has Sec. Clinton said anything about the riots? Just wondering.

Not that Ive heard. I dont think she incited them either though. In any case it isn't a competition. Why not just answer my question?

Of course it isn't a contest. But it is meant to illustrate a point that perhaps all the calls for speaking out against certain individuals aren't be levied fairly.

Even if she didn't incite the violence, should she not be doing something to calm tensions, just as you wish Trump to do? Especially considering there is quite a bit more going on with the protests and riots than those that are ostensibly perpetrating racism in Trump's name. Just as you do not feel it fair to lay this at the feet of Sec. Clinton, I do not feel it is fair to lay it at the feet of Trump.

I do believe there is a reason for the silence all around, other than the general calls for unity from Pres. Obama, Sec. Clinton, and pres-elect Trump. It's that neither side wants to be associated with what is going on. Speaking to it, especially if it is occurring on a relatively small scale, implies that these people are "theirs", and provide political fodder for their opponents to paint all of their supporters this way. You see that happen on both sides all the time.

How many people have to be tortured, harassed, or killed before it seems like it wasn't worth it giving this man so much power? I'm not pointing a finger of blame, you couldn't have possibly known the outcome or how badly people would react. I'm asking when do you, at any point, feel like enough is enough?

I'm going to answer this with another question from a different issue. Do you feel that Black Lives Matter has some culpability for the police officers that have been murdered recently? One could argue that their rhetoric has inspired significant anti-police sentiment, enough to move those on the fringes of society and sanity to take drastic, despicable actions. Is there a point at which you have to say enough is enough?

I don't think that's a fair standard.

[jp1]

So the actions of a group that exists through the frustration of abuse and persecution is equivalent to Donald Trump and a bunch of Republican middle class voters?

Nobody is free from getting their hands dirty when it comes to perpetuating violence or advocating for those who do. I never claimed any differently.

I'm sorry but if you don't feel the least hint of a tug at your conscience for the things that are happening directly (not indirectly, but fueled by his own hate speech) because of a candidate you voted for, I don't see how we can continue this back and forth. I'm not out to prove some moral high ground or point my finger and say "I'm better than you because I voted for Hillary". I'm here to hopefully bring to light the consequences of ignoring the hate fueled propaganda of a man simply because you like his policy better. I'm here, still trying to relate, because I hope that when the opportunity arises next time to check the box...these people who suffered and died weigh on your soul and you think beyond your own agenda.

If Hillary does not speak out about the riots, if she ever spreads hate speech in a way to draw out the KKK and other hate groups to the surface, if she ever advocates violence at her rallies, and then decides to run again I will not vote for her.

The man said it all clear as day, repeatedly, and nobody gave a shit. You want to know why people are mad? That is why...

Because it is not the 1800s any longer. I don't approve of their tactics or response, but at least I can find a reason in it.

[Sarge]

And I disagree with much of your assessment, other than that we likely aren't going to get anywhere with further rumination. I appreciate your point of view, even if I don't agree with it, and hope that you continue to make your voice heard.

[MrPopo]

Let's break it down. Sarge, do you or do you not agree that Donald Trump made bigoted comments a part of his campaign rhetoric?

[Jrecee]

Let's break it down:

If you voted for Donald Trump your a racist, even if you didn't realize you're a racist. If you still don't realize you're a racist, you need to think about it until you realize either A. You are a racist, or B. You're not and now you feel really guilty about voting for him. That seems to be the only direction this conversation is moving.

Thing is, anybody who voted for him is probably never going to come to either of those conclusions and so the debate will circle endlessly.

[foxhound1022]

No, it does not. I just think that most people really have no idea some of these things are going on unless they are happening in their local area.

I really do bad for the individuals targeted by the hate-mongers. Yet, I also feel for the people struggling to get by and who felt change was needed.

It does not excuse the odious nature of the man whom people elected, but I also know that our country and our people have survived far greater hardships than we experience now.

[jmbarnes101]

Before I begin I am a Constitutionlist. I don't belong to either party and I rallied against Obama and his policies as I did against Bush and his policies. I've had friends denounce me on both sides because of it. I hate tyranny and corruption which are both found on either side. I do however lean more right then left.

What most of you are saying is because I didn't vote for Hillary, because I found her to be a completely horrible candidate for a lot of reasons, and don't own people's actions that aren't mine that I'm a xenophobic, racist, sexist, bigot. Tell my daughter's that, personally I don't care what you call me I'm comfortable with myself. I would have voted him over her and not because she's a female. You people wonder why he got elected or why people were angry? I can't and won't dismiss idiots taking advantage of the situation. They are wrong. The last eight years has been horrible for Christian bashing and telling white people, men in particular, that they should apologize for being born white while giving every advantage to everyone and anyone else whether they are qualified or not. That my daughter's need to share a bathroom in public with an adult male. That a family doesn't matter because they're not liberal, black, illegal, gay, Asian, or anything else other then white.

That liberal policies have created an absolute albatross for many people, if I hadn't been diagnosed as diabetic and lost my job because of it I would have been without insurance which was going to cost me as much as rent and this was several years ago. Despite needing medication for other things. I have a job with decent insurance now but I have many friends who can't afford insurance and don't get it through work so pray they never get sick or hurt. Living wages haven't increased in over a decade and people are being squeezed by the lack of an economic solution. They see illegal aliens coming in who hate this country and yet get jobs and free benefits over more qualified citizens who are paying for those benefits yet can't put food on their own table. Entry level jobs are not supposed to exist to cover home expenses. These were jobs that existed for high school and college grads. Sanctuary cities and the Dream Act, the unaffordable, unamerican healthcare act, and other policies have caused this.

Politicians would rather condemn people and call them names then offer real solutions to problems. There is an anger in this country and people are fed up completely. Calling other people names and doing stupid things are deplorable. If people are that sensitive that they would do anything the media suggests they need help. Life isn't daisies and sunshine. Life is hard and we are creating a country of people who have to always be right, have to be pandered to, and can't have their viewpoint challenged. We need to work together for the benefit of all or we might as well just declare civil war here and now. Racism, sexism, and everything else is alive and well and it's not just those on the Republican right. If you can't see that there is no conversation to be had.

Do I support the crap going on right now? Absolutely not and both sides are completely and utterly culpable. Now are we going to step up and fix it or continue to call each other names and ridicule each other? Your choice.

[MrPopo]

Let's break it down:

If you voted for Donald Trump your a racist, even if you didn't realize you're a racist. If you still don't realize you're a racist, you need to think about it until you realize either A. You are a racist, or B. You're not and now you feel really guilty about voting for him. That seems to be the only direction this conversation is moving.

No, it's just that you feel your other concerns were worth electing someone who made bigotry part of his rhetoric, and thus showed a bunch of bigots that it was ok. Think of it like this; many Republicans have abortion as their single issue that drives their voting. So they'd never vote for a candidate who supported access to abortions. Bigotry is the Democrat version of that, which is why they're having so much trouble wrapping their head around how someone could support Trump, regardless of the rest of his platform.

[jmbarnes101]

I do need to add that if Trump continues, when he's President, talking as he has that all of us need to call him on it and if needed censure him. People from every background, race, color, and religion. The things he has said is not ok. The platform is what most people got behind or that they couldn't genuinely vote for Hillary for a variety of reasons.

Leftists calling for people owning Trump idiots actions need to own the statements made by Jones from CNN who called it a whitelash or other reporters who said the only reason she lost was because she was female. That's pure racism and sexism and is being used as a rallying cry. It doesn't work both ways.