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marurun
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Re: Visual Novels

by marurun Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:51 am

RobertAugustdeMeijer wrote:It is indeed sad how Chris has become so hostile towards potential players.
I've been reading about feedback he has been given, and he has the most peculiar reasons for not changing his game. I'm still rooting for his success, but I believe his condescending attitude is why he hasn't had a hit since 1984.


Well, he's certainly not interested in having a hit. He clearly subscribes to the idea that the only art is high art: fancy, pretentious stuff that has to be high-minded and "emotionally complex". Because people don't ever have simple feelings, right? I have no problem with him aspiring for a very particular artistic vision, but essentially denigrating other kinds of art as somehow not worth his time (as opposed to simply not being of interest to him personally) due to it being inferior is quite nonsense.
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Re: Visual Novels

by ZRofel Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:44 pm

marurun wrote:
RobertAugustdeMeijer wrote:It is indeed sad how Chris has become so hostile towards potential players.
I've been reading about feedback he has been given, and he has the most peculiar reasons for not changing his game. I'm still rooting for his success, but I believe his condescending attitude is why he hasn't had a hit since 1984.


Well, he's certainly not interested in having a hit. He clearly subscribes to the idea that the only art is high art: fancy, pretentious stuff that has to be high-minded and "emotionally complex". Because people don't ever have simple feelings, right? I have no problem with him aspiring for a very particular artistic vision, but essentially denigrating other kinds of art as somehow not worth his time (as opposed to simply not being of interest to him personally) due to it being inferior is quite nonsense.


It's really too bad, because his description of the piece and what he's trying to accomplish sound genuinely interesting. But that introduction was just oozing with condescension. I can't imagine it hasn't totally infected the rest of his work. And to Robert's point, I agree, it probably is why this guy hasn't had a hit since 1984. Nobody wants to be looked down at or told they're stupid for the type of media they consume. I find getting people excited about what you're creating is a much better way to win fans than trying to convince them that everything else they like is garbage.
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Re: Visual Novels

by ZRofel Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:41 pm

I'm in the mood to play a visual novel, and this thread has given me some pretty good recommendations in the past. I have a whole pile of them on Switch, Vita, and GOG, so chances are if you recommend something available on one of those platforms, I'll have access to it. I loved Raging Loop, which I played a few years back, and the Danganronpa series and the Phoenix Wright series are among my favorites.
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Re: Visual Novels

by BoneSnapDeez Sun Feb 26, 2023 7:37 pm

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I finished Kanon!

I've played a lot of (proto-)VNs on the Famicom and modern VNs, so it was cool to check out something from the late-90s. Amazing aesthetics and vibe. Some thots...

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Fans of visual novels have surely encountered developer Key. Best known for their tearjerker "nakige" storylines, Key's 21st century visual novels (namely Clannad, Little Busters!, Rewrite, and Summer Pockets) have been officially translated, widely distributed, and subject to all sorts of critical acclaim. However, the outfit's first two releases, Kanon and Air, remain relatively obscure but are still favorites among ardent visual novel fans, as both were fan-translated and physical copies remain relatively "easy" to track down.

Kanon, the subject of this particular review, graced the VN scene in 1999. While a smorgasbord of Japanese adventure titles already existed at this time, Kanon is one of the earliest examples of what most would recognize as a "visual novel" today. That is, it's a video game (loosely speaking) largely centered around reading dialogue and narration via text boxes, visuals that alternate between static sprites on backgrounds and CGs (full-screen images), and a "route-based" structure popularized two years prior with Leaf's To Heart. Following its initial '99 PC release, Kanon was ported to the Dreamcast, PlayStation 2, and the PSP. Some additional PC variants also followed. This review covers the PC "Standard Edition" which is pretty close to the original, just on DVD-ROM as opposed to CD-ROM and with a couple of additional graphics lifted from the console ports. I applied the English patch, but not the one that adds (the console) voices.
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Visual Novels are known for (and criticized for) their utilization of "self-insert" protagonists, but Kanon takes things to new levels. The protagonist is not only virtually faceless but basically nameless as well, as players are granted the opportunity to enter their own name (as an alternative the default of Yuuichi Aizawa may be used). To those that proceed with their own name, note that you will be called by "last name first" in the typical Japanese tradition. Yuuichi (or "you") is said to be around eighteen years old (like every VN character...) and has returned to his hometown after a long absence. An admittedly lazy plot device is employed: Yuuichi seems to be in large part an amnesiac, likely due to some repressed trauma. He inhabits a house with his cousin Nayuki and his aunt, (re)adjusting to school life, making friends, and exploring the potentialities of blossoming romance.

Above all else, this is a "comfy" visual novel. It's slow-paced without crossing the line into boredom territory. Taking place in January, the unnamed Japanese town is blanketed in a layer of fluffy snow, while interior settings exude warmth and coziness. There are no "chapters" in Kanon; instead the days trickle by with a flip of the calendar. Environments are few and far between, with nearly the entire game taking place within a house, a school, and a shopping center. In line with most popular late-90s and early-00s VNs, it's a chill experience largely devoid of visible action and dramatic calamity.

Yuuichi himself has the standard visual novel protagonist personality, which is to say he can be affable but also overtly sarcastic and annoying. The female supporting cast is naturally designed to steal the show, with each lady coming with her own noticeable eccentricities and charm. Cousin Nayuki is perpetually sleepy, always late for school (insert running with toast in mouth joke), content to just stay home relaxing in jammies. There's Shiori, a subtly coquettish girl who eats ice cream outdoors in mid-January and hides a devastating secret. Mokoto, I regret to inform you, is another amnesiac, who stumbles into Yuuichi's house and has a penchant for (poorly executed) pranks. Mai is deceptively serious, but always willing to discuss the particularities of local cuisine or her favorite animals. And the star of the whole thing is Ayu, a clumsy girl who engages in petty theft and seems to actually reside somewhere within the town's shopping district.
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The actual script is oddly paced. The earliest "days" are longest and packed with choices, while the final days become truncated and click by rapidly in tandem. And the writing quality varies wildly, with the earliest days feeling distinctly different from the "routes" -- and with the routes themselves feeling inconsistent as they were the product of two different authors. In terms of structure, Kanon features a very short "common route" (mandatory reading section) as the game splices into distinct heroine routes within the first couple of hours (in fact, Mai isn't in the common route at all!). There are five such heroine routes, each dedicated to the aforementioned ladies. There's additionally a secret route dedicated to a minor character, one that can't be accessed on an initial reading. Bad endings are here as well: how many remains a mystery. Walkthroughs don't even bother to list 'em, as the bad endings offer up no additional plot elements or CGs. Instead they just fizzle rapidly with an unceremonious boot back to the title screen. I unearthed a single bad end by simply acting aloof in all situations and never attempted to dig for others.

So, three of the heroine routes were written by one Naoki Hisaya, with Jun Maeda (now a Key regular) tackling the other two. First, the Hisaya routes. The Nayuki route feels pretty normal (as normal as romancing your first cousin can be) and lighthearted (as lighthearted as romancing your first cousin can be) and ultimately serves as a teaser and a preview for bigger (and maybe better) content. Shiori's route is a tearjerker without going overboard. Meanwhile, Ayu serves as the ultimate tearjerker in the "I can't believe a decades-old video game about anime girls manipulated me like this" sort of way. A lovely character, she soon became something of a "mascot" for Key material, showing up in a plethora of merchandise. Ayu's route also serves as a de facto "true ending" so save affections for her until the very end.

As for the Maeda routes (Makota and Mai), they're absolutely out-there. Excessively long and overwrought, such routes become dedicated to supernatural elements, yokai, and Japanese folklore. It's all pretty fantastical. One problem: no foreshadowing whatsoever! One moment you're walking home from school and the next you're told that demons may lurk the hallways and that a certain someone may or may not be an actual human! It's clear that much of the writing here is meant to be allegorical but the scenarios presented are so bizarre that it's hard to take them seriously.
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Oh, yeah, this is an 18+ VN with the good ol' h-scenes. Kanon is notable for being an early VN to feature occasional sexual content without being a "straight-up pr0nz" game. That's actually a good and noble thing, and a template for VNs to come, but here in Kanon it means that said h-scenes are so random and lack context to the point that they're wholly pointless. The female characters are also so neotenous that "lewding" them feels like maybe not the best idea. It seems as if these scenes were added in just be removed later, and they were off course stripped from the console ports (and doing such a thing dropped the game's rating all the way down to a CERO 12/B -- basically the equivalent to the North American T rating). Final reminder that Nayuki is the protagonist's cousin.

Character designs and character art were handled by Itaru Hinoue, and to say that her work is an acquired taste is a colossal understatement. Everyone in Kanon has giant eyes. No, not just "anime eyes" but ocular orbs that consume most of their faces, juxtaposed against baby-sized noses and mouths. I actually like it, but it's not for everyone. Hinoue continues to illustrate Key games, though her work has gotten less distinct in recent years. The backgrounds, few as they may be, are lovely. Though someone needs to tell me why there's a sunlight-obscured sign that says LOLICON in the shopping district. Is that... a joke? Maeda also took on composer duties in Kanon and did a fantastic job, crafting some beautiful, pensive pieces. I also can't help but think about how Kanon was released before "VN music" was really codified and how so many of these tunes would fit nicely into an old platformer or JRPG. A small negative: there are just a couple too many wintery and "Christmas-y" tracks that are a bit cheesy with their "jingle bells" and whatnot. As far as the game's UI goes, well it's actually rather primitive. Kanon lacks unique in-game menus and instead makes use of Windows context menus (think about what you see when right-clicking on a Windows desktop). It's all functional but feels a bit odd laid over the game graphics. When choices present themselves they simply appear in the text box and are of the "pick one" binary variety. Still, a walkthrough is recommended as some later choices can be on the ambiguous side.

Some have mentioned that Kanon is a decent "starter" VN for those looking to get into the (modern) genre. It's not the worst idea. While many of the ideas presented here are admittedly cliché from today's standpoint, such clichés were in fact created by visual novels such as this. As it stands, Kanon is unlikely to be anyone's favorite visual novel, but it's a sweet cuddly nostalgic trip to a simpler time. Best suited for those long winter days.

(Next up for me is Witch on the Holy Night)
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Re: Visual Novels

by chupon Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:42 pm

I tried very hard guys - but I had to quit Nurse Love Obsession. I just couldn’t do it.

I didn’t like any of the characters. NOT A SINGLE ONE. I haven’t quit a game in a while.


Anyone played Yu-No on Switch? I think that’s my next VN. Never played the original.
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BoneSnapDeez
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Re: Visual Novels

by BoneSnapDeez Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:31 pm

chupon wrote:I tried very hard guys - but I had to quit Nurse Love Obsession. I just couldn’t do it.

I didn’t like any of the characters. NOT A SINGLE ONE. I haven’t quit a game in a while.


Anyone played Yu-No on Switch? I think that’s my next VN. Never played the original.


Sorry to hear about those nurses!

Yumeutsutsu Re:Master (same developer) looks way more interesting to me, but I have yet to play it. It's oddly pricey too.

As far as Yu-No goes, I have played the original but not the remake. It's an intriguing experience and hugely influential. Also, more of an adventure VN than a route-based experience. I hate the expression, but many elements haven't aged well. The save/flowchart system can be confusing, and the horndog teenage protagonist is a bummer. Still a must-play if you're working through all the "classic" VNs.

btw definitely play Chaos;Head now that it's localized. Especially since you enjoyed Steins;Gate!
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Re: Visual Novels

by ElkinFencer10 Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:47 am

Play Muv-Luv
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Re: Visual Novels

by BoneSnapDeez Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:44 pm

Witch on the Holy Night is done!!!

Kinda overrated tbh. I dunno if I'd be into the rest of the Type-Moon library. I already own Fate/Stay Night so we'll see......
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Re: Visual Novels

by BoneSnapDeez Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:27 pm

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Visual novel developer Type-Moon is primarily known for two things: 1) crafting what is often called the "most popular" VN of all time in Fate/stay night and 2) steadfastly refusing to localize their most successful games into the English language (which makes the success of Fate all the more remarkable, as it was merely fan translated). As such, it was rather shocking to see Type-Moon's Witch on the Holy Night arrive in the United States come 2022/2023, some ten-ish years after its Japanese debut (where it was known as Mahoutsukai no Yoru). If screenshots of the original are anything to go by, this Switch release is a port (as opposed to a full-blown remake). The launch physical edition is bundled with an impressively large art book: shrink-wrapped and marked with a label warning players to not open until the game is complete, lest they ruin the story by sneaking a peek at a critical CG.

Clocking in at a couple dozen hours, this is a visual novel in the truest sense. It's entirely "kinetic" (linear), so the player/reader is tasked with nothing but reading text and occasionally navigating menus. Story: there are two witches. Aoko and Alice are their names and they live in a big witch mansion in a small Japanese city (in the 1980s). They aren't witch buddies though: their relationship ranges from ambivalent at best to acrimonious at worst. When they're not brooding in their mansion or attending school (two different ones) the ladies do secret witch stuff: primarily keeping the city, and the world at large, safe from nefarious supernatural beings. Everything's cool until a young man from the mountains (yeah, "the mountains") shows up in town. His name is Soujyuro and he's plopped into Aoko's class. That's fine, except he's roaming around late one night and catches the witches doing "magecraft" -- a mortal man witnessing such a phenomenon is a big no-no. They decide that Soujyuro must be killed, or, ya know, just live in the mansion too, under strict supervision. Some weird stuff happens and Soujyuro gets caught up in a battle for the soul of the city.
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The characters are good. Yeah, perhaps a bit cliché and tropey (though calling things cliché and tropey is in itself cliché and tropey) but lots of fun. Aoko is the classic anime tsundere, beautiful and hotheaded and prone to violent fits, both verbal and physical. Alice is the quiet blunt one, her origin story and day-to-day life both shrouded in mystery. And Soujyuro is the affable yet clueless fellow, often oddly insightful, learning the ropes of "civilized" society. There's a compelling main villain, who struts in halfway through the story, with an equally compelling familiar. Minor characters float in and out; some are of little consequence and mostly exist to fill the void. The story itself is told in the third-person, with the reader first assuming the role of "spectator" alongside Soujyuro, as the secrets of magecraft are gradually disclosed.

The script was written by one Kinoko Nasu, a founder of Type-Moon. It's a big, bold, indulgent, mess of a story. I suspect I'm in the minority, as I prefer those lackadaisical opening chapters, where Aoko and Soujyuro become reluctantly acquainted and the particulars of Misaki, Japan are revealed piecemeal. There's something whimsical about the first few hours of Night, where the writer slyly acknowledges the presence of the reader without diving headfirst into "breaking the fourth wall" levels of cringe. As the story progresses it begins to alternate between worldbuilding and action sequences. Both are impressive -- the former due to the presence of the aforementioned charismatic witch/man trio and the latter owning to the spectacle of sight and sound -- but also veer into tedium. There are positively massive "infodumps" dedicated to the particulars of magic and witchcraft and the very "rules" that govern the world. There's an impressive level of consistency here, but still, it isn't always (or often) interesting. And while the "fight scenes" are buoyed by the game's exceedingly impressive aesthetics they too fall victim to the element of "magic" itself. Can every character cast spells? Can they all be foiled by opposing spells? Can anyone actually "die" or is does perpetual resurrection prevent such happenings? It all begins to be feel capricious and consequence-free. One thing worth noting: the game is often quite funny, is a very cool effortless way. There are lots of little running gags threaded throughout the narrative -- "memes" if you will -- such as the nature of Soujyuro's numerous part-time jobs, each more impractical than the last.
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Wavering narrative quality aside, it's undeniable that this is one of the best looking visual novels of all time. Yes, sprites and backgrounds are recycled here and there, but Night is characterized by an absolutely unheard of amount of CGs. Every pivotal scene is captured via a plethora of angles, character poses, scenery shots, and close-ups. It's just CG upon CG upon CG granting the game a kind of "storybook" feel -- coupled with the subject matter it all feels like turning the pages of a dusty old tome. Such a point was not lost upon the author; view the game "Extras" and note how each chapter is represented as a physical book to be plucked off a shelf and thumbed through. And the art is gorgeous: meticulously drawn and colored with extremely pleasing character designs. Magic, always a somewhat amorphous element, is represented visually here: iridescent spheres and arcs. Adding to the storybook feel is the nature of the text itself. This is a "NVL" visual novels, where words cascade down the screen as opposed to popping up in little text boxes. The accompanying music is decent and fits the game well, though it's hardly memorable. There are arguably too many tracks: some of the better ones surface once or twice and then wither away forever. Voice acting is excellent, meshing well with the high-budget nature of the visuals.

Navigating one's way throughout the game/novel is fairly simple (again, it's mostly reading). A menu screen to save and load can be summoned with the push of a button and there's an additional UI brought up by swiping the screen's top: this one is used for pausing, fast-forward, and other "remote control" type functions. CGs and musical tracks can be revisited once they initially appear. Strangely, the game doesn't allow a player to capture screenshots or record video once the story is about 50% complete. This is presumably done to prevent those dastardly "streamers" from simply posting the whole tale online and unedited. There's also some extra content to play around with. Optional "half chapters" are on the lighter side and provide some "behind the scenes" perspective. There's also a rather difficult mystery deduction bonus chapter -- this one actually does have choices. Still, many will be satiated simply by finishing the main game itself.

First thought upon finishing this one: it almost feels like prologue. Not an unfinished game per se, but part one of a hundred-hour story. Don't expect a grand cliffhanger, do expect some loose ends. Second thought: I feel like I don't enjoy this quite as much as I "should." Even before it reached the shores of America Mahoutsukai no Yoru was praised to the high heavens, but truthfully, this falls squarely into the "good but not great" category. A dazzling production marred by some deniably uneven storytelling. Still, the "Type-Moon" label alone tosses this one into "must-play" territory for all fans of modern visual novels. Just don't open that art book too soon or try to screenshot too late.
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Re: Visual Novels

by BoneSnapDeez Thu Dec 07, 2023 9:47 am

Oh man looks like the last post here was written by me..... in April.

Anyway, after playing Kanon last winter I think I'm gonna cozymaxx with Snow Sakura with winter. Originally released in 2003, a digital copy is $9.99 on Jast (free for me, actually -- I just figured out you accumulate "points" on Jast when you purchase things).
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