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Ziggy587
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Re: Console of the Month (Jan 2022): Sega Saturn

by Ziggy587 Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:45 pm

I'm going to have to digest this thread properly when I get a chance, but I just wanted to jump in and say...

alienjesus wrote:One I'd like to throw out as a game I'd like to see a translation of is nanatsu kaze no shima monogatari, just because it's so pretty I'd love to be able to play through it:

ImageImage


YES! I actually posted about this game not too long ago (here). It's such a beautiful looking game, I love the hand drawn look of it. And from the little bit I know about the game, it looks and sounds like it would be fun to play. I hope it one days gets a translation.
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Re: Console of the Month (Jan 2022): Sega Saturn

by Nemoide Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:31 pm

alienjesus wrote:Maybe we could share a 'must-own' saturn game, a game we think is underappreciated, and one to avoid for other people in the thread?


I like this idea! Although I'm too lazy to include screenshots:
Must-own Saturn game:
Nights into Dreams - this is an obvious pick but IMO it lives up to the hype as a defining Saturn game. From the creators of Sonic the Hedgehog, Nights is the marriage of console and arcade approaches to action games; there are levels you can (kind of) explore on your own in 3D, but the heart of the game comes from replaying stages and aiming for a higher score. I think I like it more than any of the Sonic games. The later releases for PS2, XBLA, Steam, etc never felt quite right to me: the Saturn version is the way to go. Of all the Saturn games, I think this is the one I've put the most time in.

Hidden gem:
Last Gladiators: Digital Pinball (aka Digital Pinball: Last Gladiators) - we're at the point where most Saturn games are pretty expensive and it feels wrong to point to a game that sells for over $200 as a "hidden gem" (if people didn't know about it, the price wouldn't be so high), but here's one game that has a US version that can easily be found for a reasonable price, even on ebay. It's a solid digital pinball game with a rockin' heavy metal soundtrack. If you're importing or using disc images, you'd probably prefer Necronomicon or the updated Last Gladiators ver. 9.7 instead, but Last Gladiators is worth playing! Give this a chance if you like pinball.

One to avoid:
Shining Wisdom has to be my pick here.
I love the cover art, I'll defend Working Designs translation practices, but at its heart, this is a bad game. The core mechanic of building up speed to ram into enemies is no fun, the CGI style is kind of charming in its own way but isn't anywhere close to as appealing as the 16-bit Shining games. The only reason to bother with it is if your a Working Designs or Shining-series completionist. I can't imagine how people justify spending $300 (the apparent going price on ebay) on this nowadays.
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Re: Console of the Month (Jan 2022): Sega Saturn

by marurun Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:19 pm

I have been on vacation, thus why it has taken this long for me to weigh in on this thread. While my Saturn collection is not remotely the most impressive on the forums, I am definitely among the most emotionally and intellectually invested in the console. My personal history with the console is a little twisty.

I was introduced to the Saturn in high school and immediately appreciated the tight controls of Virtua Fighter, even in the original, lackluster port, as compared to Toshinden and Tekken on the PS1. Over the summer after my freshman year in college I traded my impressive TG-CD collection for a large Saturn collection. I played the CRAP out of that system. I played the Saturn, and the TG-CD before it, more intensely and thoroughly than any other systems before or after. Just as with the TG-16 community's Turbo List, I joined the Saturn List and was quite active. I even wrote a now quite inaccurate (in some ways, anyway) FAQ about why the Saturn Symphony of the Night looked and performed differently from the original. The recent DF Retro analysis of the title demonstrated both my ignorance of one key technical aspect of the console but also that I was looking at the right details and mostly the right way. While I regret trading away my TG-CD collection, I don't regret swapping for the Saturn. I still have that original Saturn, still perfectly functional despite a region mod and lots of abuse. That console went with me to Japan, and over half my collection was purchased across a few neighborhoods in Tokyo. The Saturn sat in my tiny dorm room in Koenji while I was at the Spring '99 TGS at Makuhari Messe seeing the first look at Soul Calibur on the new Dreamcast.

The Saturn had some rough 3D, it's true, and yet despite this it delivered some solid 3D titles which, by virtue of great control and gameplay, are still a blast to play today. The Saturn ports of Daytona USA and Sega Rally are still really fun, if basic, arcade drivers. Virtual On is a great port of the arcade title and if you can get the Twin Sticks is a very faithful experience. Even without the Twin Sticks it still plays very well. NiGHTS Into Dreams is a title some people bounce off of, but it cannot be denied that it is an artfully crafted, creative title that was determined to push boundaries and still looks pretty good even today. SRPG fans will probably enjoy not only Shining Force III but also Mystaria / Blazing Heroes, a fugly but quite good 3D SRPG. Virtua Fighter was a weak port but still controlled well, and Virtua Fighter Remix was a rather great rendition of the game. Virtua Fighter 2 is a fantastic fighter, featuring high res (for the time) graphics, blistering 60 fps frame rate, and tight mechanics. Fighter's Megamix knocks the frame rate down to 30 fps but is a thoroughly random fighter with VF, Fighting Vipers, and other Sega characters in an insane fighting game that isn't particularly balanced but is a blast. Last Bronx is a great and underrated 3D fighter from Sega which, mechanically, goes toe to toe with Soul Blade, even if it can't managed the same level of spectacle. The Saturn also had notable and interesting ports of Quake and Duke Nukem which are different enough from the originals to warrant a look. Panzer Dragoon and Panzer Dragoon II Zwei are both fantastic looking games that are must-plays for rail shooter enthusiasts, and Panzer Dragoon Saga is an expensive but worthwhile RPG experience for folks who want something a bit more compact in play time. Is it worth the asking price? Probably not, but it's still a rather good game. A very underrated 3D title for the Saturn is GunGriffon. It's a first person mech title which is actually quite a blast to play. Last, but certainly not least among 3D must-haves is Die Hard Arcade, aka Dynamite Deka, one of the earliest 3D brawlers and a fantastic game.

If you move into import territory you can also pick up Fighting Vipers, which takes the general Virtua Fighter fighting model and adds walls and wall interactions as well as breakable player armor. You can get all this in Fighter's Megamix, but it's a bit better balanced in Fighting Vipers since there aren't any VF characters turning up. And then there's Tecmo's Dead or Alive, created originally for the arcades on Sega's Model 2 hardware and cribbing liberally from Virtua Fighter, but adding in the ability to counter moves. The Saturn port managed to match Virtua Fighter 2 in that it hummed along at 60 fps in high resolution. Japan also got Riglord Saga 2, a sequel to what we know here as Mystaria / Blazing Heroes. There were two Slayers Royal titles released in Japan, which are basically Slayers SRPGs. They are considered rather good titles. Another very pricey import that is nonetheless a great game is Radiant Silvergun. I don't like this shooter, but it is certainly a great title for those who really want to memorize and master a complex thinker's shooter. In Japan, GunGriffon 2 was a great follow-up to GunGriffon and still a blast. There were a number of Japanese racers which were pretty good then and haven't quite held up now, like the Touge King the Spirits mountain racers. They're not bad, but they don't have the same timeless arcade fun factor many of Sega's racers had.
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Re: Console of the Month (Jan 2022): Sega Saturn

by Ziggy587 Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:14 pm

I still have to catch up with this thread, but in the meantime I have a funny story...

During a Black Friday sale I got a 3D printed SD card mount for the Fenrir. I installed it one day when I had some spare time, and I kind of rushed to get it done. I guess I put it all back together but didn't bother to test anything. So last week, thinking of this thread, I wanted to fire up my Saturn one night for a quick gaming session. Only my controller wasn't working. I made sure the plug was fully seated, turn the console off and back on, still nothing. Then it occurred to me, there's a ribbon cable that connects the controller port daughter board to the main board. Thinking back to when I was reassembling the console, I don't think I reconnected that ribbon cable. So I took the shell apart quickly and, yes, that cable was unplugged. So I plugged it in and reassembled the shell. AND... still the controller isn't working. At this point I was laughing and thinking, "I know someone else that has problems getting their Saturn controllers to work." :lol: Anyways, I realized I must not have seated the ribbon cable correctly. So I took the shell apart again, reinserted the cable, and now all is working.
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Re: Console of the Month (Jan 2022): Sega Saturn

by SpaceBooger Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:51 pm

Ziggy587 wrote:I still have to catch up with this thread, but in the meantime I have a funny story...

During a Black Friday sale I got a 3D printed SD card mount for the Fenrir. I installed it one day when I had some spare time, and I kind of rushed to get it done. I guess I put it all back together but didn't bother to test anything. So last week, thinking of this thread, I wanted to fire up my Saturn one night for a quick gaming session. Only my controller wasn't working. I made sure the plug was fully seated, turn the console off and back on, still nothing. Then it occurred to me, there's a ribbon cable that connects the controller port daughter board to the main board. Thinking back to when I was reassembling the console, I don't think I reconnected that ribbon cable. So I took the shell apart quickly and, yes, that cable was unplugged. So I plugged it in and reassembled the shell. AND... still the controller isn't working. At this point I was laughing and thinking, "I know someone else that has problems getting their Saturn controllers to work." :lol: Anyways, I realized I must not have seated the ribbon cable correctly. So I took the shell apart again, reinserted the cable, and now all is working.

I was reading this thinking "Oh Crap! My bad luck rubbed off on someone else." Good to hear you got it working. So, what did you end up playing?
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Re: Console of the Month (Jan 2022): Sega Saturn

by Ziggy587 Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:57 pm

SpaceBooger wrote:I was reading this thinking "Oh Crap! My bad luck rubbed off on someone else." Good to hear you got it working. So, what did you end up playing?


Haha, thankfully no. All of my console bad luck is exclusive to the Dreamcast.

I played a bit of Batman and Robin The Arcade Game. Not sure how I feel about that game. It seems like it could be fun, but it's a little generic. And there's too much happening on screen at once, it's a little chaotic (not in a good way). I hopped around playing a few games, but ended up not really playing anything.

Tonight though, I played a bit of Soukyuu Gurentai, which is a Japan exclusive shmup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMWhT7G_k9g
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Re: Console of the Month (Jan 2022): Sega Saturn

by alienjesus Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:36 pm

Most of my posts in this thread have been and will be positive, but allow me a moment to share with you my least favourite thing about collecting for the Sega Saturn (besides needing to remortgage your house to pay for the games!)- the game cases. Obviously, the Japanese cases are fairly standard CD cases and the US cases are those horrible ones made of the type of plastic that made as well be sugar paper. But allow me a moment to share with you the PAL Saturn game boxes - quite possibly a masterpiece of impractical design, where every element is somehow incredibly unfit for purpose in a way that suggests it was deliberate.

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First off, here's the box itself. It's dimensions are quite odd - it's about 25% taller than a DVD case, or the prior Mega Drive cases. Not really very practical for shops as it makes the games hog quite a lot of space, but not the worst offender in that respect. No, the thing to take note of here that may not be clear at a glance is that this cover is made of cardboard - this isn't the usual semi-glossy insert covered with a layer of protective plastic. This is thick printed cardboard glued onto the front of the plastic case. The glue is starting to dry out over the years so quite often the cardboard is peeling away. Even better, thanks to the lack of protective plastic, there's another common issue - where do you think retailers would have stuck the price sticker back in the day? That's right - directly onto the cardboard. Good luck peeling those off without damaging the box!

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Opening the case, and more amazingly poor design! The disc sits on a spindle in the right half, and the manual fills a space in the left half. However, both sides are impressive in their poor design. The disc spindle it only about 2mm deep, meaning that it's barely deep enough to pass through the hole in the middle of the disc. This means the slightest knock will knock the disc off the spindle - at which point it will drop quite far to the bottom of the case as the spindle is suspended towards the top of the box.

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Fortunately, whilst it's in the box, nothing should be able to knock into it right? Of course not, that is just too sensible! You'll notice the manual just sits in the case - there's no manual clips at all. That means it's rather mobile when opening and closing the case, and easily knocks into the disc. Opening a PAL saturn case and throwing your expensive game disc straight across the floor is unfortunately not an unknown occurence!

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But if the game cases are quite secure at least then at least you'll only have to be careful when opening them. Unfortunately, that again is not the case, as the clip that closes the case together is very weedy, a tiny piece of plastic that slips into a hole on the other half. Most of these have worn down over the years, and some don't clip close properly at all.

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So you have a case that falls open, doesn't properly support the disc, is designed in a way where the manual knocks the disc out, with awkward dimensions and a cover design that's incredibly prone to damage and aging due to being made of unprotected cardboard. Surely it can't get worse? Oh, but it can, because here we have the piece de resistance - the 'hinge' of the case. Or rather, the lack of one. See, despite both halves of the case being made of plastic, they aren't joined together. The only thing keeping them linked in the same piece of cardboard that forms the front cover, glued to either half. So if that glue dries out, look foward to half the plastic case falling off! Also look forward to dealing with the wear and tear inevitable from bending cardboard over and over for several decades. How Sega went from their excellent clamshells on Mega Drive and Master System to this is bewildering - it's truly awful
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Re: Console of the Month (Jan 2022): Sega Saturn

by JoeAwesome Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:59 pm

I never realized how awful the European cases are. Oof.
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Re: Console of the Month (Jan 2022): Sega Saturn

by PartridgeSenpai Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:43 am

God damn, that *is* some impressively awful design O_o

I'm afraid I can't really commend too much on the Saturn recommendations or anti-recommendations (though I certainly second Nemoide's "one to avoid" for Shining Wisdom), as I'm a bit of a Saturn newbie myself. It's lots of fun seeing all of what y'all have to say about it though ^w^
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Re: Console of the Month (Jan 2022): Sega Saturn

by o.pwuaioc Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:23 am

JoeAwesome wrote:I never realized how awful the European cases are. Oof.

Double oof. The US cases are bad enough, those European ones are dreadful. I knew they were bad, but having never seen one in person, I didn't know they were that awful.

The US cases alone have driven me to only own Japanese games, except a big box set for Virtua Cop 2. While there are some US games I still wanted (chiefly Dragon Force, maybe Need for Speed, which is supposed to be better than the PS1 version, but a very different game from the JP version), I've always been tempted to just sell my current console and get a Japanese one instead. I can still use Action Replay to play US games, right? Or would I have to get it modded all over again?
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